Talk:The Pandorica Opens (TV story)/Archive 1

	This page is an archive. Please do not make any edits here. Edit the active conversation only.

Title reference? Tardis1963 00:22, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The reference is on the series 5 article page, is it not? Plus, nearly every title this series that has been given beforehand has come true and the events of the finale were refered to as "The Pandorica Opens" in Flesh and Stone, and the title was given long before then. Heck, The Eleventh Hour title was given long before it aired, and people wouldn't accept it. The likliness is that this is the title, so let's stop being so damn highhorse. Delton Menace 00:57, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

New Picture for this episode http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KTJWhtuRLac/S_2shtln0sI/AAAAAAAAKd0/QXC6maWezCY/s1600/finale2.png

Ridiculous Rumours

With this being the series finale, we are constantly going to be givin lots of rumours on the page, some which have been around for a while or some that we are going to have heard by someone who made up. We need to have all rumours sourced to help the page from getting constantly being barmbarded with pathetic rumours, if not they will be deleted. -- Michael Downey 08:39, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Are you expecting the Rani rumours to surface like every other year? To be honest, there are pretty much few rumours this finale because of the lack of info. All we really know is something to do with a load of aliens featuring and Stonehenge and River Song. The only pure rumour is Omega. Delton Menace 13:36, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

For now and unmessyness

Until it confirmed and the episode airs it is hard to determine which aliens who are appearing will be a villain/enemy so I have placed all confirmed appearances of previous aliens in the story notes section until it is actually confirmed who will be the villains as it helps to stop people messing with the infobox. -- Michael Downey 11:54, May 22, 2010 (UTC).

Enemies

Just putting this here as I don't want to go putting it on every talk page of the enemies appearing. Shouldn't we wait until they appear before saying that they are an Eleventh Doctor enemy or appear in these episodes? It may just be a false rumour for all we know. Or a trick. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 21:35, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a rumours, it's actually supposed to be confirmed from those who get the biggest spoilers. They saw various filmimg images that revealed all of those enemies appearing in the finale, but they aren't aloud to make the pictures public until a certain date, or they could get into big trouble with the BBC. Delton Menace 01:43, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

What if things that fall into the time cracks appear in the Pandorica? That would explain the Cybermen and Daleks?

Why is it that people keep changing the enemies in the info box? Alpha111 20:27, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

i think that if you fall into a crack you are enlisted into the cracks cuasers army like daleks and cybermen and one pic of the aliens in harmony not fighting Drwhoworld 10:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

“There was a Goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it – one day it would just drop out of sky and tear down your world.”

Surely this is The Doctor.

The Doctor being dragged to the open Pandoricaby Roman soldiers. Various enemies seen standing around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmXrhE2Hgk&feature=related. 74.100.68.109 02:18, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

so far the only enemy that can be definately confirmed in The Pandorica Opens are the "Cybus Cybermen". Sclera1 07:25, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed that all the monsters confirmed in the finale are playing enemies and not just monsters as newspapers say that they join forces to DESTROY the Doctor

The Blowfish is seen with the alliance but is not on the episode page

Omega and the Dark Tower/Death Zone

To the best of my knowledge, the only source for Omega is "some video on YouTube said that someone on the set saw someone who looked like Omega come out of the Pandorica". (And I wasn't able to find such a video, but then I'm not sure what to search for.) Is that really enough to qualify as a rumor?

And the only source for the Dark Tower/Death Zone seems to be an anonymous blogger and a 13-year-old video blogger who both came to the conclusion that if there are lots of different enemies, the Death Zone is probably involved. The video blogger also based this on the hoaxed name for episode 13, "Enemies of a Time Lord".

If we're going to include these rumors at all, I think it's worth putting more than a fact tag. Maybe we could say that these are completely unsourced in mainstream media and are only the speculation of a few fans. --Falcotron 07:24, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Crack in Time in City of Death

In the classic story 'City of Death', when Romana's picture changes into a broken clock, on the face of the clock is a crack, just like the crack seen this series.

Please sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes. Also, if you start your post with an extra space, it makes it unreadable. (I fixed this for you.) --Falcotron 08:47, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Edit war over synopsis

User:Olilorry and User:The mysterious have been undoing and redoing the same change, at least 4 times in the past 2 hours, using either no edit comment, or the exact same one ("we need a more informal synopsis") each time. Here are the two versions:

A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall… (ref)http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/date/2010/05 (/ref)

A message on the oldest cliff-face in the universe, a puzzle box opening from the inside and a love that lasts thousands of years... The fates are drawing close around the Tardis – is this the day the Doctor falls?

I believe the former is copied straight out of the doctorwhotv.co.uk article given as a reference, while the latter is copied from the leaked Radio Times episode description.

Anyway, I'm hoping that people can come to some kind of consensus on the Talk page rather than continuing to edit war. --Falcotron 08:47, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall…

A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall

To be honest my synopsis are better more infoThe mysterious 08:58, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, there is more information on your synopsis. But there's some that's in the other synopsis and not in yours. For example, yours doesn't mention the cliff-face or the puzzle box.

More importantly, as I said, both seem to have been copied directly from other sites, and we really don't know who wrote them, so we may be violating someone's copyright.

I think the best answer is to try to merge the two together into something original. But I'd have to look at what the Manual of Style says above synopses and/or look over the other episodes before I'd feel comfortable writing it, so I'm hoping someone else will come up with something that makes everyone happy while I sleep. :) --Falcotron 09:03, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

One more minor thing. Your ref tag links to the list of all blog posts in May. While the finale spoilers were probably at the top when you added it, by this point they're not even on the first page. On doctorwhotv.co.uk, it's better to use the permanent links (like http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/finale-spoilers-5888.htm in this case), which you can get (among other ways) by right-clicking the story title and copying the link. I'll change that for now. --Falcotron 09:06, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

I smartly combined both sypnosises into one, detailed version. The war has stopped!

Kerange 22:02, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Rory

Please everyone do not delete Rory. People have done it, ignoring the fact that there's a link right next to his name that says that he's appearing. --Golden Monkey 20:40, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

No, there is no link next to his name, either in Cast or in Companions.

Two references have been given in the past to support this, but neither one actually does. The first states that Arthur Darvill, who plays Rory in season 5, will be part of a panel at BAFTA's pre-screening of the episode. The second states that Arthur Darvill appears in episode 13. Neither one says anything about Rory appearing in episode 12. If you have a new source, you haven't presented it anywhere. --Falcotron 21:40, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

The official Doctor Who website released pictures for The Pandorica Opens showing a man (who considerably looks like Rory). However, his back is to us. The Doctor Who fan/news site doctorwhotv.co.uk released pictures of a clear faced Rory dressed similarly to the man in the pictures on the official BBC website. VertigoSWAY 18:01, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Omega and the "nameless, terrible thing"

I removed the following two rumours:

• Omega could return after a video on YouTube said one of the set members mentioned him coming out of the Pandorica
• Omega has been rumoured to return on Youtube by a user named IJUSTSUBSCRIBENOW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBuw0Dsi_Sg . The video was posted on May 6, 2010. The user claims to know inside information on Doctor who. This maybe the only trustworthy news of Omega returning as the Youtuber's other videos mentioned about the return of the Timelords and Gallifrey back in July 01, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgYMIUYKzpE. And a video about the return of Rassilon back in June 23, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8-owH6timQ . So this youtuber may well be worth listening to. - John Barrowman (Not the actor)

• An alleged leaked script for episodes 12 and 13 described some evil form of entity, describing a "nameless, terrible thing" soaked in the blood of galaxies, the most feared thing in the cosmos. This is thought to be referring to the ultimate "big bad" of the finale. http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameronkmcewan/4477193338/ There is also a fan rumour that the Pandorica opening refers to Pandora's box, with the same thing mentioning a puzzle box opening. It is thought that this opening of the box has something to do with the return of various enemies.

The first one was here in the past, with the exact same wording. Someone later edited it to just say "Omega will return" (with a fact tag). Since that shorter version is still there, there's no need for the long version, because it doesn't add any additional information. If someone could specify what video on YouTube is being talked about, or at least rewrite this into English (and what is a "set member"?), it might be useful, but as it is, it sounds like "I heard that someone said that someone said that Omega will return."

The first half of the second one has also been added in the past multiple times, with the same wording. I'm not sure why it's been deleted, because it seems relevant, but it shouldn't be added back without some discussion. On top of that, it's not accurate as written--a leaked Radio Times episode guide is not a leaked script.

The second half is a separate rumour, and probably doesn't need to be supported. I'll try to add it back in. --Falcotron 10:26, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

See http://www.radiotimes.com/blogs/910-doctor-who-steven-moffats-episode-guide/ as a source. 86.26.137.154 07:38, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

The Quote ""There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it -- one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world." May very well refer to the Doctor, from the perspective of his enemies. The Doctor has been called a Trickster or Warrior on many occasions, and the "blood of a billion galaxies" would refer to the people who have died for him, or all the invading monsters he has destroyed, may even include the genocide of the Racnoss or Saturnynians. --Samuel 12:11, June 5, 2010

Yet another synopsis to integrate?

The BBC issued a press release that summarizes the two-part finale:

Doctor Who – The Pandorica Opens Ep 12/13

High Definition programme

Saturday 19 June

Time to be confirmed BBC ONE and BBC HD

The Doctor’s friends unite to send him a terrible warning; the Pandorica – which is said to contain the most feared being in all the cosmos – is opening, as the time travelling drama continues. But what’s inside, and can the Doctor stop it?

The Pandorica Opens is written by Steven Moffat and stars Matt Smith as the Doctor and Karen Gillan as Amy Pond.

Doctor Who is simulcast on the BBC HD channel – the BBC’s high definition channel, available through Freesat 108, Freeview 50, Sky 143 and Virgin 108.

Odd that they call "Ep 12/13" together by one name. --Falcotron 23:00, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

"Nameless,terrible thing"? Sounds like the doctor, don't you think? 90.202.74.73 11:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe some version of the doctor, sort of like the dream lord... Or maybe the doctor himself since all of his enemies are gathered.. maybe they gathered to trap him inside the pandorica; but what's causing it to open? oh well i guess we'll have to wait till next week to know..91.73.110.104 21:02, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Post note: It is The Doctor who is now placed within it.Ominic 00:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Time Lady

It's said that a Time Lady played by Joanna Paige is going to apper, however the rumours were recently quached when the actress denied her involvment.Jfraser25 02:02, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Although it begs the question...are Time Lords in the Pandorica? Where some taken into the crack?

Perhaps what is in the Pandorica is The Doctor. ScoutDaddy70 17:00, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

The timelords disappeared into a white light, possibly not unlike a crack and they would be complicated space-time events.

who is in the pandorica

i highly belive omega is a huge possibility and could be in the next episode .but an even better thing that could be in it is the new regenerated version of the new master that the new writers have confirmed in reports on the radio staton in the uk they have mentioned that the master as well as omega will be coming back soon the radio station host as who was in the pandorica and they asked which is it the master or omega and the creators said you will have to wait and see so tommorow we will see.

Tabitha Pond?

Before adding that Amy's mother's name is Tabitha Pond, please add a reliable source. So far there is absolutely no evidence so shouldn't be added to the page. The Thirteenth Doctor 20:31, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Brand New Pics!

Hey guys, brand new and fresh from the BBC DW website, don't know if uploaded by mistake but TPO episode guide already up. I have managed to quickly scrounge the pic before it is removed :)

File:Ep12 bg.jpgFound a gr8 picture with the doctor holding a device in his hand (?) follow link if it wants 2 be put up http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/episodes/b00stv7m/galleries/the_pandorica_opens_wallpapers (image 2) K-9 mark 5 17:07, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Previous Companions

The Page states previous companions won't return as they haven't been seen on set but what about http://www.doctorwho.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:doctor-who-sightings&catid=1:newsitems&Itemid=3

But that can't be true, since it's obviously referencing The Beast Below - Amy in a night gown and Terrence Hardiman being a villain are both referenced in the article. The writer is either lying or has been mislead, IMO. The evil dude. 21:07, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, it also loses credibility by saying that hardiman appeared in "The Evil Headmaster", when it is the "Demon Headmaster". HellKaiserryo12 (Talk•Contribs) 01:59, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention that the local news column that they used as a source was sure Billie Piper was in the episode as Rose and not just dropping by the say hi because she was clearly in-costume wearing a floral dress. Have you ever seen Rose in anything remotely resembling a floral dress? Can you even imagine such a thing? --Falcotron 12:45, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The Pandorica's Purpose

Personally, I find that quote from the trailer VERY interesting;

"There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it -- one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world."

Am I the only one thinking that it could very well describe the Doctor from the perspective of his enemies?

Add in all his enemies coming together like this, and maybe the Pandorica doesn't contain anything yet; maybe the Doctor's arrived at the moment of the Pandorica's creation to become the creature that will be placed in it...?MarcusSLazarus 22:40, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Could well be the way his name was played up in the previous episode. 83.104.138.141 23:15, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

that's the theory I'm going with, who (or what) else fits that description?74.100.56.10 02:47, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Remember to cite your sources. You need a "Needs Citation" footnote after the line: "Karen Westwood, who is playing Amy's mother, is credited as playing Tabitha Pond by various reliable spoilers."

Marcus, it appears that you are right. Jedman67 04:21, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Pictures

Is there really any need for so many images? If we are to keep them, wouldn't it be better to put them in a gallery or one of the new slideshow things at the bottom of the page? User:Solar Dragon/Signature 14:57, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, so you want RIDICULOUS theories, eh...

I only just got it pointed out to me that Philip Madoc appears in an undisclosed role in this story. While I realise he's a season Who actor and has had many parts, the one I remember most is as Doctor Solon, the acolyte of the renegade Time Lord, Morbius - the one who led the Time Lords against numerous innocent cultures before being destroyed so that Solon had to create for him a new body. What if Morbius, not Omega, is the evil Time Lord returning? What if the Pandorica was a resurrection machine, designed to rebuild his body, and hidden by Solon on Earth? What if all the monsters are being drawn there so that he can turn them into his new army?

Like I say. Ridiculous. DeadWalrus 15:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Please save your theories for the forums. Thank-you. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The prisoner in the Pandorica being Morbius would be completely against all established canon AND everything of what little we know about the Finale. Morbius was unsuccessful in his attempt at domination, he and his army devastated Karn and a few other planets before being stopped before he was captured by the Time Lords and his body was disintigrated with only his brain surviving, which is later destroyed. That means that Morbius is well established as dead and CERTAINLY not 'soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies' or anything close to how the prisoner is described in the preview from the episode. Now I know that it is established that the Time Lords can resurrect people but that would have been something they had done fairly recently and the Pandorica has presumably been there for so long that it is a Fairly Tale even to the Time Lords, again making it pretty much impossible that it is actually Morbius, especially since the Doctor doesn't know who the prisoner is, beyond the legend, or so it sounds like, and the Doctor very definitely knows who Morbius is. Also, the description of the prisoner doesn't fit with Morbius' MO which is conquest and domination, not destruction which it sounds like the prisoner is all about. Now, of course, the ability of Time travel means that there are ways to explain how it COULD be Morbius, but they are all quite convoluted and I trust the writers are smart enough to know that if you have to do that kind of complicated explanation of why what they are doing goes against canon without actually disturbing canon then that is a bad set up and a bad idea.Doorofnight 16:19, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Plus, the Doctor already faced a reborn Morbius in the audios Sisters of the Flame/Vengeance of Morbius in his eighth incarnation, and Morbius pretty clearly died at the end of that confrontation (Actually, his resurrection was erased from history), and given the convulted and elaborate circumstances necessary for him to come back THEN, it's highly unlikely he's still around to be trapped in the Pandorica now. Omega, maybe; Morbius, definitely notMarcusSLazarus 08:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC).

Basecode of the Universe?

In one of the sections detailing clips from this and possibly episode thirteen, it says that 26/06/10 is the Basecode of the Universe. I think that has been misinterpreted, as River was saying that she could not read the 'basecode of the universe', whatever that is, and that the date was written in this rather than it being it. If that makes any sense. Can I ask someone to change this please? 81.129.93.166 16:56, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I want to second this. The "Basecode of the Universe" was the collection of glyphs and symbols, etc. The Doctor can read it, River can't. It *isn't* the date itself, it is just that the date was *written* in this Basecode of the Universe. (It's like the Doctor can read the Matrix code.) Someone please change this.

Cleopatra?

Quote: "In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra." This must be a very surprise visit, as Cleopatra died in 30BC!

Possibly 'Cleopatra' is really River Song - or is this a hint that time is becoming confused again? 81.151.78.126 11:22, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

It is practically confirmed by bbc.co.uk/drwho that River Song is posing as Cleopatra. 82.21.218.145 02:52, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Radio advert

Anyone hear the new radio advert? might be worth adding to the article.

Just a Speculation on Rory

Just speculating this. In the article main picture, the guy in the purple robe could be Rory. It looks like him from the back. Just a thought. Kranitoko (talk) 13:28, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

According to someone who has seen some unreleased pictures showing the front of him, it is indeed Rory in that picture. I don't know if the picture has been released yet, but the ones showing the Weevils and stuff have been. Delton Menace 17:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Zygons, Terileptils, Atraxi, Draconians?

Those races have just been added to the article as returning. Sources, please? The evil dude. 14:32, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00stv7m . Here ya go. CANT WAIT OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG etc etc Fan555 15:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Tardis?

It says on the page something about a blue peter competition but it is written very badly so i can't really tell what it means, can anyone else elaborate on what he/she's talking about? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.18.165.198 (talk). 18:13, June 16, 2010

It means the Blue Peter competition to design a TARDIS to be used in this series. Since it hasn't been used yet, it will have to be this episode or The Big Bang. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 17:15, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

??? but the whole point of the lodger IS a tardis (don't say it doesn't look like one, we've never seen an un-chameleoned tardis)

it seems simle to me that it HAS already been used.

Yes but the Tardis shown in the episode looks different to the tardis console that won the competition.

Cybertrix?

Am i the only person who heard in the trailer instead of cybermen, cybertrix? cause that's what i hear everytime and i cannot get it to sound like cybermen. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.18.165.198 (talk). 18:19, June 16, 2010

sorry i get it now... anyone else going to put "cyberchips" on the page cause that's the only other word i can get out of this. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.18.165.198 (talk). 18:23, June 16, 2010

River says CyberShips! LOL! Liamhenney 17:27, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

wow, the've made a technolodgical jump. unless that justmean airships. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.18.165.198 (talk). 18:30, June 16, 2010

yea thank though cause it seemed confusing to me, shouldn't we put that on the page? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.18.165.198 (talk). 18:32, June 16, 2010

Not really. It isn't too important to be mentioned. Also, please sign your comments with ~~~~ User:Solar Dragon/Signature 17:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Are all Doctor Who viewers this stupid? Cyberships. A ship as in spaceship. Not a boat.

Not all the mentioned will be appearing on-screen.

It shouldn be noted that a lot of old enemies are namechecked, but only a number of them are appearing. So far, the only known enemies who are appear on-screen in either part of the finale as Daleks, Cybermen, Silurians, Sycorax, Blowfish, Weevils, Uvodi Judoon, a Hoix, Sontarans, and a Roboform. A majority of the others are only mentioned, and their ships might be seen. Apparantly, the original Cybermen are mentioned (they're to do with the Cyberhsips), while the Cybusmen appear. This is, without a doubt, due to budgrt reasons.

Just don't get yuor hopes up if you honestly expect all of the enemies in continuity to appear. I think the Autons are deffinetly appearing on-screen, too. Last I heard, they wrre pitured in a promo. Delton Menace 18:57, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Major Cleanup

This page needs a major cleanup. All the enemies in the infobox need to be removed until the episode airs as they could easily be taken out. Some of the story notes/rumours/continuity are duplicates and need to be fixed. Some of the story notes are still rumours at this point. In fact, until the episode airs, there should be nothing in the story notes, or continuity sections. At all. The trailers for the episode and the next time previews do not count as canon, so any information gained from them should be removed, as should any information from released pictures, as some of these scenes could easily be removed from the final episode. Does anyone agree. I know it is the finale, but really, it is a bit over the top and a lot of information, much of it repetitive. The Thirteenth Doctor 22:41, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

I had a go at cleaning up quite a lot of things in rumours and story notes. I made it so that story notes now contains basic confirmed spoiler info and not tons of things. I left the return of young Amelia, the enemies who will appear or be mention, the returning series 5 characters (Rive Song, Liz 10, Winston Chruchil, and van Gogh). Just the notable returnies for until the finale airs. Rumours is now the ever-so-popular return of Omega and original Cybermen, the Timoreen thing, and who the "united friends" might be.

But on that subject, not only did that interview confirmed Liz 10 and what not are coming back, but so did spoilerists, and another thing about the finale on my TV guide from today. It sia dsomething about van Gogh's painting beng passed through the centuries and people such as Liz 10, and Winston Chruchchill and River Song being in possestion of it as some point down the line. Something like that, anyway. A spoiler review somewhere (probably Outpost Gallifrey) also mentioned the events of each episode being revisited from a different perspective, which furhter fits with this info and would explain ther appearance. Delton Menace 23:36, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

the pandorica opens

the pandorica i think is a tardis or in fact a the pandorica is a tardis for a timelord ~JSM

SFX teasers!

See http://www.sfx.co.uk/2010/06/17/doctor-who-preview-2/. Wowee 86.26.137.154 10:03, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

• Just before anyone starts listing them here, I want to point out that discussion of these should be in the forums. I'll create a page for them. Here it is. The Thirteenth Doctor 10:08, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
• Thanks Thirteenth Doctor, I've added DS teasers below and not listed them either, glad I did the right thing here 86.26.137.154 07:07, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Clip From The Episode

The BBC website has released a clip from the episode at http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/funandgames/d11_s01_e12?category=jigsaws but is probably UK only. Geek Mythology 17:46, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Digital Spy Teasers!

See http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/doctor-who/tubetalk/a228805/ten-teasers-about-the-pandorica-opens.html

As discussion of these belongs in the Howling. I' ve created a page for them but apologies don't know how to do a link to it but I'll attempt it, Forum:The Pandorica Opens DS Teasers Please feel free to amend 86.26.137.154 07:01, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

River song photo

Dont you think that this image of river looks like the background of Churchills Cabinet War Room'sThe mysterious 13:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

File:Riversongfinale.jpg

Theory of what The Pandorica is

What ever is in the Pandorica, it could be a weapon as different alien species all want to get it. This is what I think it would be used for if they got their hands, claws, tendrils, sink plungers on it:

Daleks: Use it to destroy all life in all Galaxys.

Cybermen: To show that if you do not convert, they will destroy you.

Judoon: Would use it to maintain Law enforcement.

Silurians: Would use it to destroy all humans off of the face of the Earth.

Sontarans: Would use it to destroy the Rutan host.

Slitheen: Would possibly use it to threaten other Raxicoricalfaliptorians in to not executing them.

Nestene Consciounsess: Would use it create a new homeworld, by removing the original inhabitants.

Zygons: Same as the Nestene Consciounsess

Chelonians: Being bred for war and having the contents of the Pandorica on their side no one would stand in their way.

Draconians: The sun shall never set upon their empire with the contents of the Pandorica on their side.

Uvodni: Would use it finish their war.

Atraxi: Would use it to keep Prisoner Zero in jail or to incinerate planets.

Other species such as; Weevils, Roboforms, Terileptils and Blowfish I'm not sure what they would use it for if you have any ideas please add on to this. Son of Icthar 15:40, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

My theory was proven wrong, but I'm not disappointed by it. Son of Icthar 18:45, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Rory

Hy I'm new, I must ask did Rory turn into Auton--Jackr12 19:01, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

They (the bad guys from this episode a.k.a. the Alliance) took psychic residue from Amy's house (which included her memories) and then the Autons made an Auton which looked exactly like Rory. They gave the Auton Rory's memories. This way Rory could get close enough to Amy/The Doctor to kill her/him. (I don't know if Auton Rory was supposed to kill Amy.) --CGW 19:12, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

He didn't he was begging her to run and get away because he knew what he had to do, but was to much in love with Amy to let it happen poor Amy--Jackr12 19:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Cyber Head

When the Cyber head attacked Amy, a skull dropped out, I thought that only the brain went into a cyberman and other organs, not a whole body. They only did it in Doomsday for an emergency? Also weren't all the the Cybus ones killed? Llamaman201 (talk) 19:34, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well Maybe these Cybermen where special and maybe some cybermen escaped the void possibly because of the cracks--Jackr12 19:36, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but in the void, there's no up no down, no light and no darkness. It's just there.

In fact, the cybermen in this episode make so little sense, they might as well be another species. I mean, when did Cybermen (any variant seen so far) become autonomous from the humans they were built from on any level? The Cybermen are a means to immortality, they don't "use up" or burn out the human as implied in this episode. Granted, they seem to have evolved (clearly more advanced than any technology in Pete's World, what with the tentacles), but it still doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 83.181.66.133 09:43, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Does it matter that much? It was cool and made that one cyberman more threatening than they ever have been shown before. Carnivius Prime 11:15, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

You know, that cyberman was in pieces, maybe that destroyed the rest of the human in it. Also, yeah, when the universe was in danger from the reality bomb some cybermen got out (The Next Doctor) so maybe more got out (from doomsday so they are components on whole body).OMEGATRON 19:28, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

And in the age of steel a cyber suit with no brain was able to attack a targetOMEGATRON 19:36, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

And in the age of steel a cyber suit with no brain was able to attack a targetOMEGATRON 19:36, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, we do not know these Cybermen very well. Pete's World Cybermen did use only brains, but the Mondasans were more like "cyborgs" than robots with organic brains. They could have developed a more cyborg like technology through contact with the Modansan Cybermen or some other species. We know some "Cybusmen" survive the events of Doomsday so it seems possible that more could have. And like Omegatron said, a body was capable of attacking in the Age of Steel, I think the Doctor even said something like "it's still a robot". It actually makes a lot of sense that a suit that has lost its organic parts would be programmed to seek out a new gooey organic centre. As for the upgrades, well we don't know how much time has passed from their perspective, they could have had any amount of time to advance their technology, it was even stated they had "cyber-ships", a technology the original "Cybusmen" did not have. Plus even with a robot body they wouldn't be immortal, their brain would still age and eventually die. Genetic engineering or some kind of "cellular regeneration" could allow a brain to live forever but there is no indication that the Cybusmen posses that kind of technology. In that case, its funny to think that it would be quite possible to get a senial cybusman. :p --Looq 21:19, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Big Bang Trailer

The Big Bang trailer will air at 21:11 (GMT) tonight on BBC One.

DBuddy 19:51, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Not really

86.169.237.218 14:45, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Cybermen

What makes everyone so sure the Cybermen in this episode are from Pete's World? I don't remember them having human skulls inside their head casing, or having Cyberships, or the ability to time travel and teleport, or even the ability to attack while in pieces. Couldn't they be the original Mondasian Cyberman, who look like the Cybus version by coincidence, or simply because the producers just didn't have the money for new costumes?The Nth Doctor 20:11, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

The logo on their chests indicate them as Cybus. I suggest we wait until next episode before it is suggested that they are the Mondasian kind. The evil dude. 20:13, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I would have thought if they were to be the Mondasian Cybermen they would have at least removed the Cybus logo (like the 2nd adventure game has done) and made a bit more of a fuss about them being the main universe ones giving by how many fans have waited ages for the return of the original Cybermen. Carnivius Prime 11:12, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I imagine when the Void collapsed due to Davros there were Cybus Cybermen scattered all across space and time in the Doctor's dimension (since that's where they'd enetered the Void from). So these particular Cybermen may have been developing their technology for some time, not to mention they had the assistance of other races' technology in this (the Daleks may even have contacted the Cybermen first given that these Cybermen had previously proposed an alliance to the Daleks). The main point though is they all carry their creator's brand on them, and so it seems they've just made lots of technological advancements since we last saw them. Though it IS interesting to note that they never once said 'upgraded', replaced it with 'assimilated'. MegaNerd18 01:04, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

One thing that points to them being Pete's world is that one of the cybermen mentions how "all universes" are affected by the explosion. 68.184.128.226 02:40, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

trailer

the trailer had nothing from the big bang in it just from the pandorica opens thats stupid so bbc are reaveling nothing? JM BAKUGANAMAXUSREVIEW! 20:23, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Why's it stupid to keep some things secret til broadcast? I wish nothing at all was revealed about any episode til it was shown and you find out right then and there. I like surprises. Carnivius Prime 11:11, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

So, how many enemies actually appeared...

Before we go off to all the enemy pages can we list here which ones actually appeared. I've noticed the blowfish page said that it appeared when I never saw it, did anyone else see it? The Thirteenth Doctor 20:39, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

They and the Weevils were definitely present; they were seen in promo pics. However, I'm not quite sure if they were seen on screen. --Golden Monkey 20:41, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I saw Sycorax, Silurians and Roboforms in the background of certain shots, for sure. I didn't see Uvodni, Blowfish and Weevils, however they are in promo pics so maybe we need to keep a close eye on the closing scenes. The evil dude. 20:44, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, scratch that, there's an Uvodni behind a Cyberman in this pic (only partially its face can be seen). The evil dude.. 20:48, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

The Weevils were seen in the Confidential when filming the scene so were somewhere, just not noticeable in the episode. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 20:52, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

• Well, if we don't see them in the actual episode then we shouldn't list them as being there. A note on their page will be made though that they were there during filming, but not on screen. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:03, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
• The Uvodni is behind the furthest Cyberman from the Pandorica, and the Blowfish is behind the Uvodni, you can see its mohawk. As for the weevils, I can't see them. 182.18.252.94 03:12, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
• There's a weevil right there in the red circle.TorchwoodGuy05 09:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

• We cannot calculate how many enemies but we can in the big bang so we should not guess until the Big Bang has appeared as we can get the full result or enemiesThe mysterious 12:09, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

• I definately saw a weevil and an Uvodni in the episode, you just have to watch carefully.
  

River's run

The locations visited at the start are given on screen as:

• France 1890
• Cabinet War Rooms, London 1941
• Stormcage Containment Facility 5145
• The Royal Collection 5145
• The Maldovarium 5145

I've just gone back and checked... TheKingOfWrong 20:46, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I second this. Just did a double look for correctness. Ominic 00:25, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Time Travel

How do so many species appear when only very few species, such as the Time Lords and Daleks had time travel capability??? Geek Mythology 21:31, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

• As said, they formed an alliance. They helped each other. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:35, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • So what did the weevils have to offer races such as the Daleks in return for time travel??? Geek Mythology 21:36, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Although shown on set to appear, they didn't in the actual episode, so are not included in the alliance. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:40, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Who said they gave them this capacity? They may have just used it on them rather than sharing it with them. Also it seemed to me that they implied they used the cracks to travel through time. Furthermore, many species have this capacity, the Time Agency is not of Time Lord or Dalek origin, in fact it is probably human. So if the humans of the 51st Century have Time Travel technology, it seems to make sense that many of the species seen could have created it also, or at the very least aquired it through other means (such as through the Blackmarket, as we saw River Song do). --Looq 22:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Amy's Death

Oh my God, is Amy really and truly dead? Gone for good? NO! They can't do this! That means she can never return, ever! No, please, no! Blimey, how will the Doctor react to this? If she is utterly dead, the next companion is gonna have a harder time after Amy than Martha had after Rose. I'm praying that she will return to life somehow and save the world - or does little Amelia see to that? I've gotta admit, that would be pretty cool - young Amy preventing her own death and losing memory of it, only for the memories to return when she's older. I'm praying for Amy (not literaly - I'm not that sad - just realy, realy hoping). These are my thoughts. What about the rest of you? MidnightCat 22:07, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Clearly something's going to happen that changes events. Probably one that results in both Amy and Rory being restored. Remember, there seems to be some fairly strong evidence that a FutureDoc11 has been following Amy through time as she travels which his past self. If this is true it hasn't happened yet. --Looq 22:10, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Amy will be fine. According to Wikipedia, issue 420 of Doctor Who Magazine confirmed that Karen Gillan will appear in the 2011 series. Memcginn 01:09, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is certain, really. Rory "came back", and he wasn't Rory. There could be another Amy, someone else in Amy's form, an Amy with altered memories, etc..... Be ready for anything. Bluebox444 12:25, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Production Error?

On the main page it states that the Cyberman's "missing" arm can be seen clearly in the shadow it casts. This seems to be implying that the cyberman (or at least the actor) has two arms, one of which as been hidden, yet still casts a shadow. The DWConfidential for this episode clearly shows that the actor playing the one-armed cyberman was indeed one armed himself. --Looq 22:07, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Watch the whole thing. Fan555 22:11, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I had, but some how I missed that bit. I've just re-watched it on iplayer, its right, there is quite clearly a shadow on the wall of an arm thats not there. --Looq 22:44, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Just this moment went to take a look at the specific scene and I can say, without doubt, that the arm shadow in question is nothing more than the shadow of the hanging wires and tubes coming out of the missing arm shoulder. I wont delete the error until everyone else has gone back to have a look. But you'll see I'm right. Pantohorse 22:17, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

On confidential it showed how made that scene... the guy who plays the damaged cyber-man is an actual amputee Springwood1984 22:49, June 19, 2010 (UTC

Actually, that could very well be the shadow of an arm, if you're talking about the full-body shot of the cyberman walking into view. Because according to the Confidential, that was picked up later, and at that point the one-armed man wasn't available anymore, so they just put a green cover on the guy's arm and edited it out in post. It's very well possible that they forgot about the shadow it cast. 86.83.239.144 01:37, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

You can see the shadow just as the cyberman walks into the room. It is seen for less than a second against the wall to the cyberman's left. In this part of the scene, a two armed actor was used, only once the cyberman stoped to pick up his head did the amputee take over. Looq 21:05, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Remove Rory Williams from Cast Members

Or at least update his character to something less misleading. Rory was not in this episode - though a replica was.

It can be put as "Rory (replica)" or something like that.V00D00M0NKY 05:53, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Don't think so. Rory is part of the cast. He is not the real Rory but he is still very much like Rory because he could fight being taken control of. Even if he couldn't stop himself from shooting Amy. Rory becoming a replica is apparently through the episode summary anyway. 99.141.92.117 07:29, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

That's just like saying that Bracewell was a real human being because he had seemingly real memories and emotions. The fact is that the version of Rory in The Pandorica Opens is just an Auton with Rory's memories and something that will create near real emotions to enhance the believability of that actually being Rory. As close as you can get to being Rory but still not him. I see it currently says "Rory (Auton)" and I think that is perfect, though I'm not sure that belongs in companions since he is technically an enemy. He is still an Auton(enemy) after all. V00D00M0NKY 07:42, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. On the cast lists he is currently fine but he should be removed from the companions list because he was an Auton - and since when are autons good guys? =P --The Brig 20:38, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well he was trying to be a good guy. His hand let him down :P Carnivius Prime 11:08, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Name

See, this is why it's problematic to start articles before a topic has actually aired. According to our naming conventions, this article should be entitled The Pandorica Opens (TV story), and The Pandorica Opens (Painting) should be renamed as The Pandorica Opens. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 01:49, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Article has been moved. Bot is now running to make the hundreds of changes made necessary by impatience. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 01:57, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Bot will not make changes to any other than the main article space. So, the links on talk pages file pages, forum pages, user pages and the like will have to be made by hand. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 01:59, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Possible continuity error

According to the Monk in the first Doctor story, "The Time Meddler" (1965). The ancient Britons could not have built Stonehenge without the aid of his (the Monk's) anti-gravitational lift. Any thoughts?86.178.195.29 05:01, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well who's to say that the "alliance" didn't have any effect on him helping with it being built?V00D00M0NKY 05:50, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Did they even say that they built it in the episode? They could very well have just used it Stonehenge. They didn't have to create it. 99.141.92.117 07:31, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Another Possible Continuity Error, I thought Sutekh from http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Pyramids_of_Mars was supposed to be all fearing, couldn't be stopped, they sort of reused a plot point didn't they?

How is it a continuity error? And as stated above, no where have the Alliance said to have built Stonehenge. - I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 07:27, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Silurians?

They are hibernating underground as far as I know. And didn't River list them when she was listing the ships in the sky? Why would the Silurians need a ship in that case? As far as I can remember they never ever left Earth(correct me if I'm wrong). V00D00M0NKY 07:46, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Aye, I think that should be down as a production error. --The Brig 09:43, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

The list of races she says are Daleks, the Cybermen, the Sontarans, the Terileptils, the Slitheen, the Chelonians, the Nestene, the Drahvins, the Sycorax, the Haemogoth(? I not sure what that is or what she's saying there), the Zygons, the Atraxi and the Draconians. No Silurians mentioned so no ships Carnivius Prime 11:03, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Also we do no know what period the Silurians are from, they could be from the year 10,000,000 for all we know. There Alliance is clearly using time travel as part of it's trap. --Looq 14:11, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Actually we do know - they came from the Eocence Period as stated by Doctor Number Three =) --The Brig 21:14, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

That's the period they originated from, but we know several tribes survived into the 20th and 21st centuries, who's to say that these the individuals we saw didn't call the 89th century their home, is what I meant. Looq 21:03, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I dont think the silurians are capable of space travel so there. Liz 10 the bloody queen rules!Doctorpenguin 19:32, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Wizards

When River says, "I hate good wizards in fairy tales, they always turn out to be him," shouldn't this be put in the continuity section as a reference to DW: Battlefield seeing that the Doctor is also known as Merlin?

What do the Daleks hope to gain?

Why would the Daleks want to prevent the destruction of [all] the Universe(s)? Isn't that their goal? Imprisoning the Doctor would then be counter-intuitive, unless its just because of a grudge.

What you are saying is that the Daleks want to allow the universe and themselves to be destroyed. No. They want to rule the Universe not be destroyed. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 10:25, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah the Daleks don't want themselves to die so they'd be ok teaming up with the others to stop the universe being destroyed so it'll give them more time to conquer it. They'd be quite happy to start exterminating all their 'allies' once it's clear they don't need them. Carnivius Prime 11:18, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Are we even sure the alliance is real? Think about it: Daleks are ruthless imperialists who perceive all other species as inferior (and, by the way, would never use the word "scammed"), the Cybermen are determined to convert everyone into themselves, the Sontarans are unstoppable warmongers who do not recognize the term "negotiation". Under no circumstances could these species ever cooperate with each other like this. What if the whole alliance is a kind of trap within a trap and someone or something much bigger is really at play here? --Jpx400 11:51, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

The alliance need to be alive and to stop the universe being destroyed in order to fulfill their own goals and it will turn out that Omega has been manipulating them in order to get to the Doctor and take revenge on him as the last of the Time Lords and the final one he needs to kill to feel avenged after they betrayed him. The Tardis from the Lodger was his and after the events of the Lodger he went to Amy's house on 26th June and set these events in motion before taking control of the Tardis and destroying it while the Doctor is trapped in the Pandorica. So the alliance is real but has been manipulated into that position be Omega or the Big Bad that said "Silence Will Fall" in the Tardis.

AM/PM Clock Confusion

We finally have a strong hint that the ongoing theme of broken AM/PM time transitions on clocks are intentional. When the Doctor and Amy arrive in ancient Britain, the Doctor gets audibly confused about "1.02 am, ... no, pm! No, A.D.". Hack59 12:17, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I honestly think that is just for effect, and Moffat has noted that the whole ID badge thing was a production error, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to say this is just a coincidence. 79.72.221.114 15:14, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Other Greek Letters

The article currently identifies two of the greek letters following River's "HELLO SWEETIE" message on the cliff, but doesn't discuss the others. I've tried to decode them, but don't understand their significance. So, in case anyone else has any clues, they're

Φ ΓΥΔϟ

Which translate into the Latin alphabet as F GUD and I believe X. However, the last character is problematic as I can't find it in any Greek alphabet. It's closest to xi, but the resemblance isn't that good.

Any ideas what they might mean?

They're just co-ordinates. I think. - I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 19:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

The symbol is the obsolete greek letter Qoppa, alternately written Ϙ and equivalent to the letter Q. The entire thing is said to be a set of temporal coordinates. The Theta Sigma part may be part of the coordinates too, or it could have been a way for River to confirm that the message was for the Doctor. I happened to notice it and thought it was worth noting in the article. Ehsteve23 21:03, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I think you made a good catch with the Theta Sigma -- it just makes me wonder if there's a hidden message to the rest. I mean, I know in-story it's time coordinates, but I wouldn't put it past Moffatt to be having some fun with them too, since he could arbitrarily pick any characters he wanted. 69.156.46.181 23:51, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Could it be related to Greek Numerals? Similar to Roman Numerals, only less well known (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numeral). Numbers would make sense if it were representing co-ordinates. The page on wikipedia lists them with their equivalent number (but it has them listed in lower case, so it would be σθ φ γυδϟ) (87.114.122.130 20:49, June 23, 2010 (UTC))

Take the whole string with the theta and sigma: ΘΣ Φ ΓΥΔϟ

ΘΣ = Doctor Who (from his Academy days)

Φ = φίλει (Greek for 'he/she loves')

ΓΥΔϟ = γυνὴ or γαμετὴ (both mean 'wife'), υ could be just about anything with all those υπο-prefixed participles out there (maybe 'future?'), and

Δϟ ᾽Doctor Song' The whole thing together: 'Your (future?) wife, Dr. Song, loves you, Dr. Who.'

Autons

By the way, who here was tricked by the Auton Romans? Llamaman201 (talk) 17:08, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

dunno if needs a place here, but anyways yeah I was. Right up until they raised their hands all straight and you knew the fingers would drop down to reveal a gun. Them Autons have sure improved their realistic looks over the years.

Draconians?

The Alliance is made up of enemies and yet the Draconians aren't the Doctors enmy! They're the Doctors friends! I didn't see any there, either. --The Brig 21:01, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

They weren't all villains. They wanted to save the universe: many of them were evil, but otherwise good species like Draconians probably felt the drastic measures were necessary for the good of the universe or something like that. --Golden Monkey 21:04, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I actually just saw Frontier in Space yesterday. The Doctor had helped them previously in an unfilmed adventure and he was even made a noble and is a hero figure in their history. It makes no sense unless they just want to protect the universe. 173.57.144.238 20:20, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

That explains the Judoon and Atraxi. Matoro1 21:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

You could argue the Atraxi as being enemies =P. They we're going to blast this planet and are listed as enemies on The Eleventh Hour page. You could argue the Judoon as being particularly hostile and dismissive of the human race. Does this class them as enemy? --The Brig 21:20, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I always thought of them as the 'space police' or something. Maybe they're a bit rough but I think they're still technically good guys. Matoro1 21:26, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm yes, I think the [Judoon]] are good guys, not too sure of the Atraxi though! --The Brig 21:29, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I always thought they (Judoon and Atraxi) were neutral, not taking sides just being police and jailers Springwood1984 21:09, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

The Atraxi were going to blast the planet at the end of The Eleventh Hour for no reason and they are listed as enemies on that page. --The Brig 15:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

I know who river song is ! (maybe)

She is the Doctor in his thirteenth form!

Think about it, In the library she whispers his name, We all assume it is because they are married, Maybe it is because she was HIM, so she knows who he is.

She has the doctors diary, why would she have that unless she is writing it. If it is stolen then the Dr. would destroy it.

She knows how to drive the tardis. She seems to know an awful lot of personal info.

When the Daleks are closing the Pandorica the Dr. says the tardis is the key and the Daleks say only "A TIMELORD" can pilot a Tardis. Now others have flown in the tardis but only the Dr. can control it.

So since River is a timelord she can control it.

Her screwdriver was given to her by the doctor, So weas his, The tenth to the eleventh.

She is in prison, Maybe she killed some future tyrant so is only brought out when needed, That part I am not sure of.Xombygodd 18:01, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

But I would bet my left ..Um Arm That river song is a future incarnation of the doctor or is some other Timelord.

Just because the doctor has been all men does not mean he has to stay one.

Come let me hear what you think.

I think I'd hate if she was the Doctor but be ok if it turns out she's Romana or some other timelord/lady.

Sign your comments, for crying out loud. The Dalek says that "only the Doctor can pilot the TARDIS," not only a Time Lord. Earlier, River said that the Doctor taught her how to fly the TARDIS. Delton Menace 01:30, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly my point how did you learn to drive, A few lessons the you teach yourself through trial and error. When asked how she knew how to pilot the tardis River states "she was taught by the best". Not that the Dr. taught her.Xombygodd 18:01, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

She says back during the Stone Angel episodes that she killed the best man in thw world or something similar. The implication being that it was the Doctor. Regardless, whoever she killed is a good guy.173.57.144.238 08:05, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Also if she was the doctor why would she call him to help her in situations, like the Library, surely she would know how to deal with it, becasue the doctor did and she would be him. 217.23.232.194 09:19, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Because the library is the end of her, She died. Remember she was stored in the sonic, She called the Doctor because she wanted someone who would know what to do.

Plus the Doctor remembered being there, Fixed events and all that.

The only thing I cannot figure out is why she would be in prison.

I know!

It is protective custody, The people know this is her last incarnation so they are keeping her safe and only bringing her out when it is an emergency.

That is just my thought, I like the romana line though, That would be good..

Or maybe she is the Dr.'s sister?Xombygodd 18:01, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

peoples, River Song will be in no way The Doctor's last form. The Daleks stated that because no Dalek has ever encountered River Song according to the Doctor's perspective on her (if you get me). The Doctor of the future remembered the Library, so he gave her his screwdriver, told her his name (probly sometime beforehand) and cried because he knew what would happen because its already happened for him. Plus, at no point is River ever considered a Time Lord/Lady because, where's the evidence? why would Moffat do that? I have several key points you may want to read:

1. if you recall in The End of Time P2, the predictions by the time lords state that TWO survivors beyond the final days of the time war. The Doctor and the Master. So, she isnt Gallifreyan.

2. River stated she was taught by the best. since the Doctor can only fly the TARDIS (according to the Daleks at least), its logical to assume she was taught by the Doctor. Plus she actually syas that -.-

3. its clear she is told by the Doctor after the events of the Library from the Doc's perspective. he knew everything that River would say, so he made sure she knew it. he told her his name at some point, gave her his screwdriver and cried about it as stated by River in the double episode

4. all we know is that River was taught by the Doctor as she has stated and refering to point 2. there is no evidence and no comments on how many lessons she had. for all we know she might have spent years learning it, or days, who knows?

my points are, as much as this is just a theory that i dont want to put down, its so highly speculative. infact, i believe you are saying that because you are guessing. it would be a plot twist if she was, but the fact is....she isnt

sry if all this seems harsh, but im just making a point :)Ooiue 18:18, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

The Voice. Easy to crack!!

If we want to find out who is responsible for the cracks (omega ?)

Then can't we just find out who did the tardis "silence will fall" voice and see who they are cast as?

Dr Canary – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.210.180.124 (talk). 08:19, June 21, 2010

1. They were uncredited so we could not find out.
2. Even if we found out who did the voice, they would probably not voice the character.
3. It could well be Nicholas Briggs, which is who I think it may be, as it uses the same sort of voice distortion techniques used for the Daleks and Cybermen to do that sort of voice. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 07:23, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

My first thought was that it sounded like Davros. Probably just Nicholas Briggs doing a generic Bad Guy voice... TheKingOfWrong 09:58, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Agreeing with Davros theory and the Generic Bad guy voice thought... But most of all it reminds me something more sinster. Ominic 13:53, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I think its a dalek or something to do with a dalek Davros,Dalek Caan etc.or Possibly Omega --The mysterious 16:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Rory Plot Hole?

Okay, so there's an Auto-Rory, made from the psychic residue from Amy's house. But how does Auto-Rory remember being killed, seeing that the psychic residues would've been from Rory before he even followed the Doctor and Amy onto the TARDIS. Given that the real Rory was killed in a subterranean cave somewhere under Cwmtaff, the pyschic residue for this memory would be there, not in Amy's house...

Unless the Silurians knew about it?

The psychic residue was so they could gain a psychic link with Amy. That included her present and past memories, which (for a time) included Rory's death. That's how he remembers. The Thirteenth Doctor 13:08, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

But wouldn't she need to visit her house again at some stage after rory's death to 'inplant' the new psychic residue/memories?124.178.142.241 17:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)Rawr-ity

• No. A psychic link is a psychic link. The link is constant. The Thirteenth Doctor 18:41, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

how would you end it?

I would have the pandorica be a auton built form from Amy's book about pandoras box.

The trickster is of course the Dr. I mean from the DALEK view he is the most deadly thing in the cosmos.

The cracks, Are A......Um... Maybe Amy is schizo and these are her fragments.Ooh better yet maybe the tardis has finally flipped

and the bad guy all along has been the sweet little blue box, WHich finally snapped.

I mean several of the cracks and eyes have been in or on the Tardis console maybe the villian

has been there in plain sight.

Yes I would make the TARDIS A.I. the villian, completely out of left field and would make for good drama.Xombygodd 18:14, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

• Please save your theories for the forums. They have no place on the talk page. The Thirteenth Doctor 18:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

River's Line

When River was inside Amy's house, and she realised where she was when she saw Amy's home made Doctor-Doll she said "Oh Doctor, why do I let you out." I wonder what this means? In the context of the episode it seems possible she is refering to letting him out of the Pandorica. Looq 16:38, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

She probably means why do I let you roam free or go out on your own because of how many lives he damages as he clearly caused psycological and emotional damage to Amy.Berfomet 19:08, June 22, 2010

A possible error? New enemy?

When River was naming all of the enemys, she mentions

Haemogoth. But what are they? Did she mean Haemovore or is this something we've never seen before? Or is it a book character I've overlooked?

Haemogoth may be just the form of Haemovore to discribe them as a people or their technology. Ominic 12:14, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

it is a new alien as it was mentioned in The Forgotten Army 94.9.171.164 18:57, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

It's The Doctor

The voice in the TARDIS sounds like The second Doctor's voice.109.186.158.241 17:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

"This Morning"

On "This Morning" (which was on this morning =P) in an interview with Matt Smith, he stated that "a character would be returning". He wasn't allowed to say who that character was, but he did say that the character (he didn't even mention gender) would be very important. Looq 16:35, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

The Voice's actor

Has the actor who portrayed The Voice been given? Or was it just Nick Briggs? If the portrayer is uncredited shouldn't that be noted in this article? MegaNerd18 22:27, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Madam Vernet

Is she the same character that played the mother in Vincent and the Doctor. The mother's page says that she is, but her page says that she isn't. Which is it? The Thirteenth Doctor 16:18, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

I know from checking the titles at the end of both episodes that Chrissie Cotterill is credited as playing 'The Mother' in Vincent and the Doctor and 'Madame Vernet' in The Pandorica Opens. I don't know if this is what you meant however. If your asking if the character 'The Mother' and the character 'Madame Vernet' are meant to be the same person I have no idea :( --Lyco499 05:06, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Silurian

Does anyone else find it nonsensical for there to be Silurian's present as part of The Alliance? --Lyco499 05:02, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Rory's photo?

If Rory was erased from time why is there a photo of him in amelia's house?

96.51.21.207 07:50, January 31, 2011 (UTC)96.51.21.207

it was psychic residue94.9.171.164 18:58, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Archive?

Hey guys, given that this talk page is Huge and goes way back to prior to the airing of the episode, anyone else think it should be archived? AlexMcpherson 02:34, April 19, 2011 (UTC)