Talk:Dalek history

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Order

Shouldn't the example from "The Daleks" be much later in the timeline? In "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", The Doctor explains that their first conflict with the Daleks took place a million of years after the invasion of Earth, it sounds like it should be well after most if not all of the events on this list. Have I missed something? Or is this just in the order the stories were released? Caswin 22:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the Wiki should stay as neutral as possible about the order of events, since we don't know them. I would not attempt to summarize the history. I would just list events in the order of: Creation; Spaceflight era; time travel era (which might well overlap the previous era) and the Last Great Time War era. if you start giving an order of events beyond that, you stray into fanon and speculation. 24.61.13.0 01:28, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

On account of The Daleks, there needs to be a degree of logic applied because of the stories that came after it, in order to place it anywhere the start makes the most sense. If it goes anywhere else it has to be that they were a break away group. Which is fine and dandy, except the story also needs to have taken place before Planet of the Daleks which is the first mention of the whole legend, Ian Barbara and the Doctor (Rebec I think mentions it). It also needs to take place before Destiny of the Daleks as the Daleks go ransacking Skaro, and Skaro is a planet lacking people at that point. Additionally in I, Davros: Guilt there is a scene which seems to feature a Dalek seen in The Daleks. --Tangerineduel 07:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem with a list is, well it wouldn't make sense, there needs to be small summaries because there's so much contradictory information. Also a lot of Dalek history can be dated (or put into perspective based on what is said), and doesn't actually follow a logical spaceflight era, time travel era sort of progression. --Tangerineduel 07:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do want to avoid in-page speculation as much as the next guy; that way lies madness. However, the fact remains that unless The Doctor was wrong about the date for some reason (which does stray into the realm of speculation), we have an explicit statement that the events of The Daleks took place a million years after The Dalek Invasion of Earth, but here, it's listed as their "Early History". That can't be right. Caswin 02:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure it isn't explicitly stated that Planet of the Daleks occurs after The Daleks. Rebec mentions the Doctor visiting with his companions and the Doctor is the one who names them Susan, Ian and Barbara. The Thals could have actually been alluding to Genesis of the Daleks and the Doctor was merely under the impression that they were talking about The Daleks. However, this means that we can't always trust the word of the Doctor and it is the Doctor who says The Daleks takes place in the far future and no one else, so this is a bit of a dilemma. Bigredrabbit 01:09, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Delete or move to a new namespace we haven't even created yet

This kinda article makes my skin crawl. This is as pointless as trying to write a biography of the Doctor. The article acknowledges that Dalek history can't be written definitively when it begins with "this is only one possible account". People have tried and failed to write a unified Dalek history for years. And I've never seen anyone succeed — even when they only had the televised episodes from the old series to contend with. Add in the new series, add in stories from all media, and it's just impossible. So why are we trying?

I say delete it outright. Failing that, maybe we could consider a new namespace called "Essay:" or "Opinion:", in which writers would be generally bound by the rules of in-universe writing, but it would be clear to readers that they're not in the factual, encyclopedic portion of the wiki.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 04:22:57 Tue 28 Jun 2011 

I don't think deletion or moving should be our first option, I think we should have a go at splitting and improving the quality of parts of the Daleks' history that we're sure of and that we've got proof of.

Several of the Daleks' major battles are already covered in dedicated articles, the rest of their history that is definite can be split off further into articles so it's more definite about what it's referring to and not just guesses which is how some of this page is currently laid out.

I think this article can still remain as a framing article for these various pages.

I admit though, some of the information, especially around the New Empire section does need editing down or removing as there doesn't appear to be any link between Big Finish's Dalek Empire and that one seen in DWM.

I don't think a different namespace would be the best thing for this article. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:55, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

I vote for ex-term-i-nation of this article. Dalek history has no definitive chronology. information presented in The Dalek Handbook does not count as canon.

incidentally, TARDIS Index File editors can always print their essays, theories, limericks, slash fiction involving Jack Harkness and that guy with the thing in his eye, to the blogs on this Wiki.--Stardizzy2 20:31, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Tangerinduel, except I think that this has already been done. The various articles on different events/conflicts throughout Dalek history are already quite comprehensive. This merely takes them, along with other, less important, events in Dalek history, and places them in a timeline that, whilst being quite good, is essentially fan-made. I do think that creating a new namespace on essays would be good. I'd certainly use it. Bigredrabbit 03:40, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

I tried initially to edit out all the REF material, but found that it was too complicated to disentangle the information that is REF material and that which is narrative material.

I've instead thinned it right back to a list of conflicts, wars and research.

I still believe this is a good starting point for people who don't want to delve into the Category:Dalek conflicts, I've also left the Alternate timeline events as I'm not really sure where to put that information, I don't think it's covered elsewhere. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:23, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

The Dalek Handbook

Unless we can find a way to crush it down into a list of more-or-less comprehensive "see alsos" of every historical Dalek event, I'm somewhat against cutting.

HOWEVER, the BBC website and Dalek Handbook are reference material, which means that these should be shot to a Behind the scenes section, and basically ignore any hints of there being two pre-Time War timelines in the main body UNLESS it's implied or confirmed by one of these. -- Tybort (talk page) 23:18, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

As per Tangerineduel's comments above, this has been resolved. -- Tybort (talk page) 17:04, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Reintegrate into main page?

Maybe not now, but when the alternate timeline stuff (as well as possibly other Paradigm-related events) find their own relevant historical pages, would it be fine to slot the lists back into the History subsection of Dalek? -- Tybort (talk page) 17:04, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

As this page is mostly a list, I'm not sure if a list would fit into the flow of the the Dalek article very well. --Tangerineduel / talk 17:13, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alternate universe Daleks

This part:

• Dalek Empire's war against Daleks from the alternate universe and Earth Empire (4162 - )

...should really have a redlinked name, rather than linking to the factions, shouldn't it? -- Tybort (talk page) 13:13, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

You mean redlinked to an actual battle / war name? I think the two articles summarise the war better (for the moment) than an article could because of the quite long duration of the war and the various small battles that are heard in the various audios. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:38, May 21, 2012 (UTC)