Talk:Dalek

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Infobox pic

Should we have a collage for this article too?

Well, even though he didn't want to sign his name to his expressions of distaste, above, Patrick Watt apparently doesn't like the current infobox pic here. Since he won't be with us until 1 January, though, I move that we pick up his work and discuss it. He's suggested the pic at right, though he was working on another. It seems to me that we need to decide on a number of things, inspired by Patrick's work:

1. Do we approve, in general, of the idea of a collage?
2. Are we, instead, happy with just the latest version of Daleks representing the race as a whole?
3. If we want a collage, do we need all four of these — 60's, 70's/80's, RTD, Moffat?

Please note that I'm laying these questions before the community without bias. I don't care one way or the other. However, since Patrick won't be with us for a while, someone has to get the ball rolling. Please feel free to place your comments below.

czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">23:21: Thu 08 Dec 2011 

Approve

Not really an image taker, so I can't produce one myself, but I see no issue with collage images in principle. As a bare minimum I'd definitely include RTD and Moffat, but I'd probably count other eras of the show too. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:13, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Although as a side-note I'd include the bronzey-gold model representing Davies' run, and definitely not the Ironside paint job (which are technically under Moffat's era with the New Dalek Paradigm. Also, I have a feeling that for uniformity's sake, it should either be all "crowds" or all "single Dalek", not a mixture like the current infobox image. Poor 60s and 80s Daleks are being squeezed off to the side. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:19, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the collage idea, it helps represent all of the eras of the show, and breaks up te monopoly of the new images. That was another AMAZING message, from ME, InvaderMEEN!^{Contact me here!} 12:52, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I actually don't mind either way about the idea of a collage and think whether it works or not basically comes down to the choice of images in the collage, poor choices would look bad, good choices would look great. However, I do think that it is important to depicit the various models of Dalek that have appeared on screen (and ideally in other media as well) *somewhere* on the page. If that means in the info box, fine. if it is in the body of the text, that works too. Personally I'd be happy enough with the latest Dalek design in the info box (even though I'm not a fan of the design) as long as other designs are well represented elsewhere on the page.

I'd quite like to see a sort of informal policy of using pictures/photos in a way that actually represents the number of appearences throughout the show (and to a lesser extent spin-off media). So for example if Monster X appeared 10 times in the "classic" show and twice in the "new series", there should on balance probably be more photos from the classic show than the new series. In the case of the Daleks, they appeared on-screen in Dalek-based stories (not cameos) I think 4 times with the 1st Dr, 2 with the 2nd Dr, 3 or 4 with the 3rd Dr (depending on how you view Frontier in Space), 2 with the 4th Dr, 1 with the 5th Dr, 1 with the 6th Dr, 1 with the 7th Dr, (at a push, voice only in a cameo) 1 with the 8th Dr, 2 with the 9th Dr, 3 with the 10th Dr and so far 1 with the 11th Dr (I suppose 2 if you count the adventure games). I'm not suggesting that each story has to have a picture of a Dalek on this page (on that story's own page would be good though) but the main "Dalek" page should display a range of images of Daleks from different eras. Based on my list above, the Daleks had about 12 major appearences in the "classic" show and so far 6 in the "new series" (although most of these featured identical time-war design Daleks). On that basis "classic" Dalek images should outnumber "new series" Dalek images by about 2 to 1 in order to actually represent their role in the show as a whole. At the very least the page should not be dominated by images of the "new series" Dalek designs (ditto with pages for other "returning" monsters such as the Silurians & Sontarans).

Can't sign in as I'm on a different PC but user ID is "Mr Pepperpot"92.18.17.132^{talk to me} 19:13, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Against

I feel a bit like we've done the collage a little bit to death.

We've got it for Rassilon, the Master and the Doctor and some people seem to have decided that's "how" we do images now for stuff that spans across all of Doctor Who.

I am against a collage, partially for this reason and for reasons related to the Master and Doctor discussions. There are too many depictions of the Daleks to do them justice in a collage. With not just the TV depictions there's also all the comic story depictions (TVC and DWM) plus the Annuals and anything else.

I think a single Dalek image or a group of Daleks image should be used for the infobox, but not a montage of them. As we do for other species pages. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:57, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel too strongly either way, but I agree with most of the points Mr Duel has raised. I never thought that the single image was not adequate and so see no reason to change it.--Skittles the hog - talk 16:27, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to nominally side with Skittles and Tangerineduel here. I think that Tybort's reservations have sorta proven the point: it's hard enough to decide on one image to represent the species; finding three or four representative images is going to be extremely difficult. As he's pointed out, do we want all individuals or all groups? If you went for all groups, you'd end up sacrificing the kind of detail that a single pic could provide. Daleks, it seems to me, haven't varied that much in their designs. A Dalek taken from any story is actually representative of the species as a whole. The fundamentals of Dalek design are fairly inviolate.

Having said that, I think that the current picture — that is, Pandorica-Spoilers-4.jpg — should be disqualified on the grounds that it's a promotional shot, and therefore violates T:DWUP. So in my view, we need another single picture.

Though there are numerous possibilities, this is one case where I think we can break the logjam by going for an unusual source. Since the dispute on this talk page has long raged about whether we should use BBC Wales or Television Centre Daleks, I say we choose neither. Instead, I think the primary image should be taken from the TV21 comics or the Dalek annuals. That is, we should go for the Daleks from a more purely Terry Nation source, rather than using a Doctor Who image. There are plenty of gorgeous, full-colour, painted Daleks from which to choose.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">20:43: Sat 10 Dec 2011 

Sounds like a good idea. Here's a couple of suggestions then from TV21: --Tangerineduel / talk 15:59, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

• 

  From Duel of the Daleks

• 

  From Duel of the Daleks

• 

  From Shadow of Humanity

I think the first one from Duel of the Daleks looks the best.--OS24 16:27, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I strongly appose the use of a collage. The collage is ONLY for chareactors who change appearances. People have argued that it well represent the daleks in the show. Well, that's just the problem, it dosen't well represent ALL MEDIA. And let's face it, we can't. There is NO WAY that we can well represent the 50-odd years of Dalek TV stories, Comic strips, audio adventures, Brief Encounters, and books in ONE 250px image. I think we should go with the first image in the gallery above. ----OS24 14:22, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually going to plump for the middle image, because it shows an Emperor Dalek and has no speech bubbles. The Emperor is an important concept in Dalek lore, both in the comics and on television. I think that this nice two-shot gives an indication that not every single Dalek looks like the rest. I do think the image appears to come from The Dalek Chronicles rather than an original TV21 copy of the story, so it could be brightened up by going to the original source, but that's a minor quibble that can be fixed later.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">21:35: Wed 14 Dec 2011 

Whole panel of original middle image.

Just one thing to note the middle image has as far as I can tell had the speech bubbles painted out. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:57, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Cool! That's an even better image, cause it's widescreen, and you get a sense of regular Dalek "troops". We should just remove the speech bubbles from that and use it. Super easy.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">14:20: Thu 15 Dec 2011 

Here ya go.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">14:35: Thu 15 Dec 2011 

The above, as taken from a higher-quality digital source, with the background alpha channeled out

This cropping will make for a better 250px pic

So, we'll add the Zeg and the Emperor pic then? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:00, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Let's give it a week and await any further discussion/suggestions. Remember to check user talk:Patrick Watt#Dalek infobox, too.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">06:37: Sat 17 Dec 2011 

It's been a week, so I'm gonna go on ahead and change it. --OS24 02:31, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Images

I have noticed, as others have also on this page, that there is a lack of Dalek images on this page that are non-new series. I also noticed that most non-new series images came from Remembrance of the Daleks. I have began a hunt for older images to use on the page to try and remedy this problem. OS25 (talk to me.) 13:25, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

There, I think that I have successfully created a more varied-set of images. How does it look? --OS25 (talk to me.) 20:29, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Stairs

I haven't seen all Dalek episodes, so I could easily be shot down here, but just to clarify have the pre-flight Daleks ever actually been stopped by stairs (as opposed to climbing out of ducts) in any episode? It sounds like something mostly only seen in parody. -- Tybort (talk page) 16:59, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

In Destiny of the Daleks, Tom Baker escaped from a Dalek by climbing up a ladder. OS25 (talk to me, baby.)

Blinovitch?

Is it reasonable that the Dalek gunstick's discharge is related to the Blinovitch limitation effect?

    -In NSA: Touched by an Angel, Blinovitch limitation fields were characterized by arcs of blue light, electromagnetic interference (enough to short out all of the appliances and electronics in penthouse and cause a house fire), and physical contact with one could leave one charred.

This appears to match the physical description of a Dalek's weapon discharge:

   -The beam is normally blue
   -It's ability to conduct through metal and water suggests electromagnetic properties
   -Victims may be left charred

Being a time-capable species, the Daleks would know about the Blinovitch limitation effect, and their time-travel related power source seems like it would be compatible.

Also, being a species with the technological might to challenge the Time Lords (who wield weapons that delete people's time streams from the universe), it seems unlikely that they would be using technology as comparatively primitive as plasma. A Blinovitch limitation weapon firing time energy seems more appropriately "timey-wimey" to engage the Time Lords in a time war, as a weapon firing time energy may also have properties that affect peoples' time streams that have not been explored. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.205.81.11 (talk).

It's possible, especially for Daleks of the Time War era and later. But unless there's something explicit making that connection in a valid source, we can't say it in an article here. It's just speculation. —Josiah Rowe ^{talk to me} 01:46, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. It was only intended to be speculation (I hope I didn't misunderstand the purpose of the talk page). I just want to see if it sounded reasonable. And thank you for pointing out the implicit assumption of Time War and Post Time War Daleks. Those are the ones I was thinking of, but I hadn't noticed that I was accidentally making a statement that was meant to apply to a subset of Daleks instead apply to all Daleks. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.205.81.11 (talk).

No problem. Generally, the talk pages are for discussion of changes to the article at hand; general discussion can be found at The Howling. And you can sign your posts by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~. That will produce something like this: —Josiah Rowe ^{talk to me} 15:40, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

OK, Thank you. 68.205.81.11^{talk to me} 18:46, June 21, 2012 (UTC)