Talk:Bad Wolf meme
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Table for References
I started to make a table for all the references here. It's not completed, but just looking for opinions as to whether it could be slotted into the article or not. -- Lost Soul talk contribs email 10:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
- It's very good, but the problem is, it's out-of-universe and I doubt that it could be not. ~ Ghelæ -talk-contribs
- Probably not. Perhaps you could turn it into a list about BW occurances in the Doctor's lifetime, e.g:
| Image | Date | Reference |
|---|---|---|
|
5,000,000,000 AD | The Moxx of Balhoon mentions to the Face of Boe the "classic Bad Wolf scenario." |
|
1869 | When the clairvoyant Gwyneth reads Rose's mind, she says, "The things you've seen... the darkness.. the Big Bad Wolf!" |
Bad Wolf and The Invasion
Is the message on Isobel Watkins' wall canon? And if so, was it meant for the Doctor's eyes or did Rose send it to the wrong place and time? - Tawaki 19:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I like to think of it as the Bad Wolf literally re-writing time, which is what resulted in the reconstruction of the episode. The message was almost certainly meant for the Doctor, one of a few early hints to embed it in his mind and help ensnare and guide him. Don't forget, the Bad Wolf references continued into Series 3 and returned at the end of Series 4.--TheOmnius 17:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
- Why has it been moved to behind the scenes? It's part of an official release and therefore canon. It should be moved back to be part of the timeline.--TheOmnius 20:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think it counts as canon because that element did not appear in the original broadcast. otherwise you have two perfectly canon versions of two episodes of the The Invasion. I think the original version with Patrick Troughton counts more than a recreation done nearly forty years later, by different people. --Stardizzy2 21:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's Doctor Who. Time re-writes itself. This is a minor difference in canon, where we see the mechanism for the change in the show itself - meaning the Bad Wolf Entity re-wrote time itself using the full power of the time vortex.
- The Time War and the Bad Wolf entity re-wrote multiple aspects of reality and time - we've seen the Earth destroyed at least twice. Gallifrey was also destroyed on multiple occasions, nearly a dozen of them if we include the nine copies.
- In continuity, first the Bad Wolf graffiti was not there, then when the Bad Wolf Entity re-wrote time, it was placed there. The events were literally re-created, in and out of continuity. We've seen similar things in other places, such as Sam being written out of history.
- MAY-BE you could put this on the Myths or Continuity sections. But Behind the Scenes? It's on the screen. It's part of the scene itself! We're not talking about a writer, actor or member of the production team telling us their view of what happened on screen, like Julie informing us that the Doctor did, indeed, tell Rose he loved her on Bad Wolf Bay at the end, and had intended to the first time he spoke to her there after she was stranded. While that is quite arguably continuity and canon, it's also clearly behind the scenes. This doesn't even meet that standard.--TheOmnius 02:41, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- If the article had a myths and continuity section it would still be in the behind the scenes section (only story article have a continuity section).
- But on the rewriting term, there needs to be a line between what is implied and what we draw direct conclusions from. From what is seen on screen/in media (through flashbacks or whatever) Rose leaves bad wolf messages to remind herself about what is to come. All the visible Bad Wolf memes are in places that Rose could have seen/imagined/known about etc. If there's a citeable source that shows that Rose knew about The Invasion then that might be cause to leave it in.
- Sam's situation is a little different (depending on which writing out of history we're talking about), in Unnatural History it's a paradox/time loop effect, if it's Sometime Never... it's more of an implied thing that happens to several people (which at its end is even more vague).
- If we put it in the article there's a few ways to include it; Deal with it the same way we deal with other conflicting accounts: 'Another account sees Bad Wolf written on Isobel Watkins' wall...etc' or something to that effect. Alternatively put after it something like (DW: The Invasion (DVD recreation ep.2 version)), or something to that effect (I'm going to have to grab it off the shelf as I didn't even notice the 'bad wolf' that last time I watched). --Tangerineduel 14:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- "All the visible Bad Wolf memes are in places that Rose could have seen/imagined/known about etc. If there's a citeable source that shows that Rose knew about The Invasion then that might be cause to leave it in."
- Rose knew about all of it. She looked through the whole of time and space. So anything that had happened she would have seen. The only things I would think she'd have been blind to where things coming out of the Void. But there is NO reason to think that she couldn't see it, or that if she couldn't the Doctor didn't tell her about that.
- As I said that's still implied (and therefore no reason to this she could see it all), I meant something like a passing reference to Vaughn or something in the novels. What Rose says in The Parting of the Ways is very vague and can be used to include anything.
- Well...on Gridlock it depends exactly how you mean (see [http://www.gallifreyone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125039 Outpost Gallifrey (old) forum membershp req). According to one poster "Further investigation shows that it clearly is an attempt to render "Bad Wolf"! The second (lower right) character is almost an exact match for Japanese okami, meaning "wolf". And the first (top left) character is the Japanese word aku, a noun meaning "evil". So it does translate as "Bad Wolf", even if it's not the Japanese for "Bad Wolf" (if you see what I mean)!" and another; "In Mandarin it reads 恶狼 "e-lang" = "evil wolf". Can also be translated as "vomitting wolf".".
- Is I said if it needs to be included it just needs the 'in one account' statement added to it to clarify its position or/and a note within the brackets of the citation describing where it's really from. --Tangerineduel 16:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Adherents of the Repeated Meme
Oh come on. Shouldn't this be mentioned? Because what is the message "Bad Wolf"? A repeated meme. ZeldaTheSwordsman 17:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
