Talk:Cleavis
Why not John?
In Mad Dogs and Englishmen, William Freer calls him "John Cleavis" and his brother Fred calls him "John" several times. Is John later revealed to be a fake name? Amorkuz ☎ 21:11, October 26, 2017 (UTC)
- I take it back. The explanation was on the page: a different first name was used in another valid story. However, this is still not a speedy rename. There are various policies that might or might not have bearing on the case. Tardis:Character names dictates to use the first and last name. It also suggests to use the names most commonly used (the exact wording applies to last names only but the intent is clear). Here, it seems that one story calls him John and the other calls him Henry. Not knowing exactly how close the relationship between the two characters is, it's hard to pick a position. For me, the best solution would be to make two pages, given that they exist in different timelines and are called differently. But I'll leave this move to be done by an admin who read both stories. Amorkuz ☎ 22:10, October 26, 2017 (UTC)
'Fellowship of Ink' appears to be largely considered, at least by readers, as part of the Brenda-and-Effie series, in which Prof. Cleavis's name is Henry and its his brother is called John (see Magrs's 'Something Borrowed', 2007). One wonders whether there is sufficient justification for including 'Fellowship' on this wikia? Brenda is included because she appears in a BF audio, but the rest of the books about her are not.86.150.248.55talk to me 16:41, September 14, 2018 (UTC)
- Do you mean this Fellowship of Ink? Amorkuz ☎ 17:04, September 14, 2018 (UTC)
Full disclosure: I haven't read every Paul Magrs story, but I'm going to try and reopen this discussion (more to educated myself if not to correct the inconsistencies).
In Fellowship of Ink, set in the 1930s, there are characters named Henry Cleavis and John. It is revealed that the pair are operating under a false narrative that they are brothers, with John likely also taking on the Cleavis surname. Reminding John of their false story Henry states; "You are my younger brother. I have looked after you since you were sixteen when our parents were killed in Switzerland. Keep the story straight". As someone who has not read Mad Dogs and Englishmen is it not possible for John Cleavis to have been Henry's successor who later appeared in stories which covered a time period of the next 40 years.
This could possibly explain why stories set in/before the 1930s feature Henry Cleavis (Spicy Tea and Sympathy, Something Borrowed, etc), but stories after the 1930s feature John Cleavis (Peculiar Lives, Mad Dogs and Englishmen). Then there's To the Devil — a Diva! which complicates matters by not stating Cleavis' name. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎ 22:57, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
- So if I understand you correctly, you mean to say that John assumed Henry Cleavis's identity after a certain point in the 1930s?
- If so, that would explain a lot, though it would seem a little off-kilter for Magrs to write something with that much interal continuity, considering the likes of Arthur Korns.
- Also, how much of this is stated by the text of the stories, or is this an interpretation from reading between the lines? Either way, it is mighty interesting to perhaps have an answer to Cleavis's shifting name.
- Could you provide more details please? I'd really want to examine the possible explanation myself! 00:46, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
