Theory talk:Timeline - Torchwood

Timeline restructure

I noticed User:BananaClownMan changed the structure of this timeline significantly without any consultation. I don't see why the removal of years and the addition of arbitrary headlines for "eras" helps to make this timeline clearer. Especially since there are multiple branches and hence defining the timeline by the leadership of one individual is impossible prior to the Battle of Canary Wharf. I'd like to revert to the previous edition of the timeline, but thought I'd bring it up here first. Danochy ☎ 03:06, March 24, 2019 (UTC)

I agree, although I think perhaps the headlines should go by decades rather than individual years or something like that because there’s so many years that only has one story attached to it. SarahJaneFan ☎ 14:29, March 25, 2019 (UTC)

I was getting the page ready for an overhaul, where I do what I did with the Doctors, the Master and he River Song timelines; hunt down all the information I can to make the most logical timeline for the Torchwood Institute. This included separating the factions to both reflect the seasons of the show and avoid the Aliens of London dating controversy.BananaClownMan ☎ 19:12, March 25, 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough, but to me separating by time period makes more sense. and yes decades are probably the best route to take, as SarahJaneFan says, at least until the 21st century. I also think we should separate by branch, like the Cyberman page has, since the Torchwoods do largely work separately. But let me know what you think.

As for the Aliens of London dating controversy, the only major contradiction is a CIA report, which we have no reason to trust over the vast majority of sources that place Everything Changes in 2007, but that's a conversation for another time. Danochy ☎ 05:16, March 26, 2019 (UTC)

The Lives of Captain Jack?

Why have (AUDIO: One Enchanted Evening) and (AUDIO: What Have I Done?) been added but not any of the other 'lives of captain jack' stories.

I would put some in myself, but I haven't listened to Volumes 2 & 3 and don't know where some of them would go.

I think it’s essentially because The Lives of Captain Jack has absolutely nothing to do with Torchwood, except for featuring Jack. And we’re not really looking at including everything that happens to Jack here because that’s best suited to his own timeline page.

The reason iirc that those two specific stories are there is because they take place in the gap between Series 3 and 4, with one of them linking to Jack’s cameo in The End of Time. And there’s Torchwood branded stories that take place there too, so it feels sort of relevant to the ongoing story to cover that specific period on the timeline. But it’d not so relevant IMO to cover Jack’s day trips with Jackie Tyler.

It’s a difficult distinction because Jack has such heavy ties to Torchwood, but it just seems sort of pointless to include everything Jack does on the timeline even if it’s not actually related to Torchwood. Maybe it’s worth a discussion with some more people. SarahJaneFan ☎ 15:55, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

The Grey Mare

The Grey Mare is set on 24 and 25 December and Ianto is unsure of how someone at work (i.e. Jack) feels about him. This would seem to suggest that it's set during the Christmas of series 1, but, from memory, I'm not sure it's possible that it takes place during Out of Time. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 12:18, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

• From memory, Out of Time actually ends on Christmas Eve. Also Ianto isn't in it much (I think he might literally only appear when he helps the displaced trio go shopping?) so him going off and doing something else is quite possible. SherlockTheII ☎ 12:24, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Unless it's set pre-Series 1 and he's talking about Lisa rather than Jack? SarahJaneFan ☎ 17:12, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

He's working in Cardiff and deliberately says "they" instead of "she". Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 17:40, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

The Vigil's Placement

Authorial intent places the vigil very early in tosh's career (her and Sebastian both being new recruits) so around 2004. the Ianto mention kind of throws a spanner in the works but is it possible that the Ianto in the story was tw1 Ianto? Sebastian was so important or whatever that they had to send down someone trustworthy to show him around Cardiff?

it is obviously a bit of a stretch but calling late 2007 early in tosh's tenure doesn't really work either.

Thoughts?

They didn’t meet Ianto at all until after the Battle of Canary Wharf when he joined the team so it can’t be that. There’s not actually anything in the story to suggest that Tosh is a new recruit, that all comes from behind the scenes. So we can either put it earlier and ignore the reference to Ianto in the story or put it later and ignore behind the scenes stuff saying it should be early in Tosh’s Torchwood career. Imo setting it later causes less glaring issues. SarahJaneFan ☎ 04:00, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

We have a bit of an issue here. The Ianto reference really throws things off, doesn't it? Authorial intent, for me, is truly important. Sebastian is clearly not meant to be around during 2007 (Series One) but the reference really ties our hands. The original comment left here provides us with the whole Torchwood One Ianto, which is at least as far back as 2004, which could work. But as you also say, Jack seemingly didn't know who Ianto was in the flashback, nor did he want anything to do with Torchwood One. But that doesn't mean they never crossed paths. My personal opinion is leaving it roughly 2004/5 and treating the Ianto reference as either not there or not what you think. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 10:52, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't think we can just disregard the reference, as such references are basically the cornerstones of the entire timeline section. Having The Vigil simply be prior to Series 1 feels like enough of recognition of the author's intent, as whilst its 2007 it is still before the TV series and thus before 99% of Tosh's stories. Also a part of me thinks that if the author had been married to their story being really early in Tosh's career, they'd have included something in the story to explictly say so. SherlockTheII ☎ 08:45, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

The only person who ever even mentions ianto is sebastian. Neither Jack who is off screen, or Tosh, ever even acknowledges the name. it isn't far out of the realm of the possibility that yvonne, not wanting to upset a potential investors son, sends ianto to cardiff to butter him up. CptJackHotness 00:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Placement of The Empire Man

I've run into a few hurdles in attempting to place The Empire Man. The clues I have garnered are as follows:

It is set on Christmas Eve. This one is absolute.

Torchwood are a functioning entity, independent of the Queen. This would set us after 1979. The ending of the story mentions the organisation, so we can't be earlier.

These are the absolutes. The following clues are a bit fuzzier:

There is a new Prime Minister, who won an Election earlier in the year. If we use the elections of the real world, this would narrow it down to 1880, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894, and 1895. That said, as the story ends with the Prime Minister being possessed, there is every chance that this deviates from 'real' history, and these years aren't particularly helpful.

In the Summer of this year, there was a (potentially ongoing) Coal Crisis. There was a real Coal Crisis between 1871 - 1873, but obviously this would place us prior to the foundation of Torchwood. I can't find any record of another year in which this was a historical issue, though I confess I'm not a particular expert in history! Therefore, I'm willing to discount this clue.

It is this Prime Minister's first visit to the tunnels in which the story is set. Though this could be a ruse from the Queen to trick the PM into becoming fully possessed, there is at least the implication that other PMs have been here before. This therefore implies that it is the PMs first term. If we use real world Prime Ministers, this would be either Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, or Archibald Primrose, setting us in either 1885, or 1894 respectively.

Based on this information, I am leaning towards Christmas 1894 - Archibald Primrose won the premiership during the spring of that year, making him culpable for the coal crisis during the summer. He is also considered a failure, making him a good candidate for Victoria to wish him possessed, and he had a short tenure, leaving office the following year (perhaps his possession was discovered and expelled by Torchwood, or he was deposed in some similar fashion?).

Regardless, it's a bit of a tricky one. Thoughts?