Talk:Child Master (The Then and the Now)

Permanent name

Is everyone fine with War Child? I know some have wanted War Child Master, but if you read the story this contradicts the actual material in-question. In the story, he doesn't have a name because he's in the Time War. OS25🤙☎️ 05:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

I know that some might argue that "War Child Master" is what most fans will call the character in their heads. But personally, I think we should pick the page name that we want people to call the characters. I don't want articles referring to this character as the Master, so I don't want that in the page name.

Sorry to argue with myself. OS25🤙☎️ 23:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

We should not be "picking the page name that we want people to call the characters", we should be picking the page name that people already call the characters! Our place as a wiki is to be a descriptive encyclopedia, not a prescriptive source of new fan lore. If there is no consensus name in fandom or behind-the-scenes for an incarnation, it is not our place to just make one up. And there is no unique consensus name for this character. The story dab should remain. – n8 (☎) 01:50, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

As I said in the main page, I don't mind the DAB being there. It's just that The Master is not a correct pagename. War Child (The Then and the Now) is a fine name. The Master (The Then and the Now) is not, and calling the Master as depicted in this story the Master is not appropriate for our in-universe pages. OS25🤙☎️ 06:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

This is not an example where we don't know the name. It's an example where we know the character has no name. And simply ignoring this and calling him "The Master" anyways is paramount to having Missy be The Master (Deep Breath). OS25🤙☎️ 06:36, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

If "War Child" is the part that bugs you, we could also very well call this The Child (The Then and the Now), given he appears numerous times before his former identity is revealed. OS25🤙☎️ 06:38, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I fully support War Child, or if we can't do that, "Child (The Then and The Now" Cousin Ettolrhc ☎ 07:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I must say I don't support "War Child" or any generic name like that. This incarnation doesn't just renounce his name and take on a new one like the War Doctor did, he renounces any name, and it just so happens no one calls him anything to his face. When Alice returns from the Time War, before she forgets, she tells the Eleventh Doctor she met "the Master... as a little boy." So does the Squire.

So I disagree with the notion that it is incorrect to call him "the Master". Just because he doesn't use the name, doesn't mean he himself is not the Master. He is "an incarnation of the Master" as much as the War Doctor is "an incarnation of the Doctor". (See, for a well-known demonstration, "Haddocks' Eyes". That one Volatix Cabal Dalek would probably like it.) In lack of a name, we could call him Boy (The Then and the Now), but we can do better than that. Because really, the most important point here is that the fact that the best way to identify this character is that he is the Master. Calling him anything else in absence of a new name like the Lumiat has is confusing and misleading.

All that said, I think there's another way to do this. This incarnation's existence is limited to a particular timeline which, while not entirely "aborted", was effectively erased. The timeline "unhappened" so to speak, even though its consequences remained in the post-Time War universe. That's why the Squire exists but "has no history". So I think this timeline should have a page, and the Master can be considered particular to it, kind of like The Master (The Warrior's universe). Then, per T:DAB OTHER, the disambiguation term will be the reality the character is from, which is much more helpful than the story dab anyway. The question just remains as to what to call that timeline. Perhaps "The Malignant's timeline"? Not sure. Chubby Potato ☎ 12:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC) (P.S.: Thanks for getting me to reread 11DY2)