Talk:Disney Time (TV story)

Possible deletion?

Someone added a "delete" tag, and informed me that apparently, a page that must have covered this same special was deleted last year. Could I see the relevant discussion? On the face of it, unless it's a licensing issue, I can't possibly see why this wouldn't fall within the scope of things this Wiki covers.

This special seems almost precisely in the same mould as Search Out Space — a TV special, part of an established non-DW non-narrative series and adopting its format, except featuring the then-current Doctor as its host and a pretense of a narrative wrapped around it.

Edit: Digging further, I find that the rationale was that this is "Tom Baker as the Doctor, not the Doctor". While it may be true of other TV appearances by Tom, I really don't think that's a fair assessment of this particular special — the Doctor arrives and departs in the TARDIS, his reason for ending the special there is that the Brigadier needs his help for some offscreen adventure, he mentions traveling to Mars… and at no point does he break character as he might in, say, the 1990's linking segments for Shada. He does break the fourth wall right at the end, but that's a different thing; it's a fourth-wall-break that still refers to him as the Doctor, it's just that the Doctor is talking to his audience.

It's really no different from Search Out Space, in my opinion. Of course, I'm open to arguments otherwise, but I can't think of any. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 23:34, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

User:CzechOut's reason for deleting the other page: "this is Tom Baker as Fourth Doctor, not the Fourth Doctor. Not a TV story, not strong enough connection with the DWU to keep)." Shambala108 ☎ 23:40, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

I'm completely with Scrooge MacDuck on this one. --DCLM ☎ 23:46, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

Relevant quote: information is scarce, but this is what Wikipedia has to say about Disney Time 1975:

Tom Baker (in costume and in character as the Fourth Doctor, not as himself) hosted the August Bank Holiday Disney Time on 25 August and introduced excerpts from Clock Cleaners, Blackbeard's Ghost, The Jungle Book, African Lion, The Apple Dumpling Gang, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Return of the Big Cat, Escape to Witch Mountain and Lady and the Tramp. The show ended with the Doctor leaving in the TARDIS to go to the aid of Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, a tie-in with the start of “Terror of the Zygons” the following Saturday.

All bolds are mine.

I don't know about you, but I think this all is more connection to the mainstream series than Search Out Space had. It certainly had no direct tie-in to an episode of the main series.

Oh, incidentally, to all Wilf fans out there, it seems that the August of 1976 edition of Disney Time was presented by Bernard Cribbins. I don't know if it's noteworthy enough to make a note of it anywhere on Tardis, but it's a fact and it's neat, so here it is.--Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 11:18, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

The rationale in the Delete template doesn't even make sense. "This isn't the Fourth Doctor, but Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor". That is literally the same thing. --DCLM ☎ 11:42, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

Eh, no. It's a fine point but it has been argued elsewhere, and there's definitely times when it's "Tom Baker as the Doctor" rather than "the Doctor" — that is to say that the actor is dressed as the character and is sort of lightly pretending to be the character, but there's no serious intent to tell a story about the Doctor, it's just the actor showing off.

The 1990's VHS version of Shada was kind of like that - Tom Baker is kind of pretending that this all 'really' happened to him, but at the end of the day he'll still refer to Douglas Adams and to the proceedings as an "untransmitted story".

Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman's in-character appearance at the Doctor Who Proms was also deemed to be this. He's acting like the Doctor, but only as part of a broadcast that breaks the fourth-wall super-hard, and from the audience point of view no one thinkts they're seeing a genuine Doctor Who play about the Eleventh Doctor; the interesting thing is that there's Matt Smith there on stage; that he's acting like the Doctor is just a bit of extra showmanship.

All this, of course, does little to change the fact that this isn't what's going on here, and the special definitely deserves a page. But the notion isn't as stupid as it may seem. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 11:51, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

Please note that wikipedia is not a source on this wiki either for in-universe or real world sources. Shambala108 ☎ 14:46, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

Sure. I never claimed it was. The point of the quote was that whoever wrote that Wikipedia page (presumably someone who had also watched the special) agrees with me and Danniesen on the fact that this is the Fourth Doctor, and I thought it relevant to note that this person found evidence of this: the ending is obviously meant to tie into Terror of the Zygons. So I quoted that person's Wikipedia paragraph both to show that I and Danniesen aren't alone in our opinion, and to showcase this evidence without claiming it as my own idea. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 14:55, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

That discussion seems to have frozen a month ago… Does anybody else have any thoughts on whether we should or shouldn't cover this, and why? I've lengthily argued my case that this is in fact meant to be the actual Fourth Doctor, rather than Tom-Baker-pretending-to-be-the-Doctor. But I've yet to hear back from the other side of the argument.--Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 12:58, January 13, 2019 (UTC)

I have been messaged on another Wikia by "Scrooge MacDuck", and he tells me that he has been banned temporarily for raising this case of an article that, in my opinion too, frankly deserves to exist. --DCLM ☎ 17:25, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

Correction. Just overlook the thing about him being banned. That was not related to this, but a misunderstanding. --DCLM ☎ 18:52, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

Just saying, a block/ban is supposed to be a deterrent to unwanted behavior; allowing a blocked user to have input in an open discussion kinda defeats the purpose. Not going to comment on this particular user's block, but I want to be sure that everyone understands the consequences of unwanted behavior. This has been stated multiple times before by User:CzechOut. Shambala108 ☎ 21:26, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

That's why I said to ignore that bit of my input here. He messaged me on another Wikia and I misunderstood what was said, thinking that the block was related to this which they corrected afterwards. However, I still stand by that this article deserves to exist. --DCLM ☎ 08:03, March 10, 2019 (UTC)