Talk:The Valeyard

User:Finister2

I think, whoever plays the Twelfth Doctor will play the Valeyard during the Thirteenth Doctor's adventures.

Dream Lord

Since the Dream Lord has been compared to the Valeyard, it seems reasonable to speculate that maybe he's created as a result of the incident in Amy's Choice, but remains a subconscious part of the Doctor and doesn't manifest as an entity until sometime between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnations. Just a thought, as it would seem to fit quite nicely at both ends, as it were. Then again, I know next to nothing of the Valeyard, so I could be way off :P -- Sorceror Nobody 18:23, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

I new of the character but not alot, I suppose the Dream Lord could be the The Valeyard as to have to dark sides that are so addament on defeating you does strike me as slightly odd. Danisfunny 18:28, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

as much as I would like the Dream Lord to be the Valeyard, we have to face facts; they come from different backgrounds. The Valeyard was specifically stated to have come between the Doctor's 12th and 13th Incarnations whereas the Dream Lord is the essence of the Doctor's darker side in a dream state, so cannot exist in reality. Everyone is basically wanting it to happen as we want to see the Valeyard back for continuity, as do I, but the Dream Lord isn't The Valeyard Ooiue 07:16, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Solar Dragon added a discussion of this to the article, which I think belongs there.

Then anon IP 86.26.174.123 reverted it.

Then Mini-mitch re-added it.

Then anon IP 83.131.105.211 reverted it again.

I added it back. However, I think it might be better to just remove the line "The Valeyard and the Dream Lord may be the same person" than to leave it and explain why it's unlikely.

Hopefully no one will change it again without some discussion here.

Anyway, here's what the article says right now:

• The Valeyard shares similarities with the Dream Lord, who is also the dark side of the Doctor. The Valeyard and the Dream Lord may be the same person. This is unlikely as the Eleventh Doctor says the Psychic Pollen which created the Dream Lord is a mind parasite, and therefore is simply a microscopic alien using the Doctor's mind to create a mental form.

--Falcotron 13:07, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Of course that didn't settle it. In fact, we ended up with two different and conflicting discussions of the Dream Lord, one under Notes and one under Behind the Scenes. At one point, one paragraph almost blatantly asserted that the Valeyard was a future form of the Dream Lord while the other dismissed it completely. That was fun.

I tried to merge the two of them together, and to leave in enough of the argument that the Valeyard might actually develop out of the Dream Lord that hopefully people won't see the need to keep adding it back in.

But really, it would be nice if people would discuss contentious things on the Talk page rather than keep changing the article back and forth.... --Falcotron 00:56, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

A conundrum

I've just thought of something....if the Valeyard really is the dark side of the Doctor between 12 and 13, then why is it he went back to Trial of a Time Lord to try and put his earlier half-self on trial if he had all the memories of that event? i say half-self because he partly is the Doctor and partly isnt. If he possessed all the memories of the Doctor which is likely, why did he go to the trouble of going to Trial of a Time Lord in the first place if he knew he would lose?Ooiue 07:24, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

History can be changed. --Falcotron 13:08, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

User:Finister2 - Perhabs the regeneration that created the Valeyard cause short term amniseia, preventing the Valeyard of remebering most of his life as the Doctor.

The Valeyard changed history. In the original time line, Trial of a Timelord didn't happen, so the Valeyard didn't remember it. He went back in his own timeline, changing history during the events of Trial of a Timelord.Icecreamdif 01:05, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

So, wait, um...

How does this work with the events of Impossible Astronaut? --Mikalosa209 03:47, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

WOAH! WOAH! WAIT STOP! You didn't actually believe for one single second that he was actually dead did you? I mean, it's wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that THEY PULLED THIS TRICK ON US BEFORE! (DW: The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, DWM: The Final Chapter, Wormwood) OttselSpy25 ^{talk to me} 23:22, October 18, 2011 (UTC)