Talk:Erimem

Infobox pic

"Erimem" on a cover of something

The picture at right is the one that's stood as the infobox pic for ages on this page. But it's not an accurate picture of the character, and so has been removed. As noted at File talk:Erimem.jpg, the character has been explicitly referred to as "black" and "dark-skinned" — which this image of actor Caroline Morris in an Egyptian headdress simply does not convey. Thus, it is better to go without a pic than to perpetrate this obvious fraud. I'm hoping that maybe one of the comic previews of an Erimem audio has a more accurate image.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 15:54: Sun 25 Mar 2012 

There's a picture at http://davison-era.livejournal.com/63336.html that might do but I've no idea if it could be used legally or not. --89.242.70.20^{talk to me} 16:47, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but that's fan art, and therefore falls foul of T:NO FANFIC.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 20:48: Sun 25 Mar 2012 

Infobox, again

I've been replacing some audio characters' infobox images with higher quality and better crops recently, and I wanted to do the same with Erimem, but I thought I should bring it up here first because of the prior discussion. I think this is the best possible infobox image for Erimem. It's tightly focused on her face with no distractions, unlike the current image. I'm aware of the discrepancy between the audio covers and comic previews, but I think the article should reflect both by including both looks, and this would better serve the infobox. P&P talk contribs 15:50, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Image

Given that Erimem is an audio-original companion, doesn't it seem more appropriate to have an image of Caroline Morris in the infobox? -- Saxon (✉️) 12:34, October 20, 2020 (UTC)

It's a toss-up, really.

Erimem maybe an audio-original, but it is in prose that she became a series lead in her own spin-off. I think that as far as the "must represent a character's primary medium" rule is concerned, either would satisfy our policies.

I do think any argument in favour of using the audio covers should be weighed against User:CzechOut's very valid concerns that using the picture of Morris essentially makes the Wiki complicit in a bit of mild, but still somewhat squicky, whitewashing. There may be arguments against these concerns (I'm hardly the biggest Erimem scholar), but they haven't been raised yet, and when the books allow us to sidestep the issue altogether, we'd really be making life harder on ourselves by abstaining from using them. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 13:58, October 20, 2020 (UTC)

I see what you mean, but the same could be said about Liz Shaw who became a series lead in P.R.O.B.E. - however, an admin (I forget who) said in an edit summary many years ago that an image from P.R.O.B.E. would never be used in her infobox. I wouldn't say that using an image of the actress who originated the role is "problematic", as one might say, especially given that the skin colour of Ancient Egyptians is unknown. See this page, for example. -- Saxon (✉️) 14:06, October 20, 2020 (UTC)

Though debates over the genetics and appearances of ancient peoples can be fascinating, I think what makes this problematic is more that Erimem herself has been described as "dark-skinned", at least according to CzechOut. Furthermore, Erimem's appearances in her own series now outweighs the number of appearances she's had as a companion of the Doctor, whereas P.R.O.B.E. is a very small subset of Liz Shaw's appearances (not that I'd be opposed to the use of a P.R.O.B.E. pic on her page). Lastly, I think her illustrated depictions on the covers of books allows for authorial intent for what she looks like, unrestricted by the appearances of her actor(s). For these reasons, I think the current image (or any further book cover images) is as satisfactory a representation of the character that we could ever hope to get. Danochy ☎ 22:14, October 20, 2020 (UTC)

I completely agree. As I've actually talked to Iain McLaughlin about the cover of The Last Pharoah, I know that he (and Claire Bartlett) specifically commissioned the likeness of Cleopatra to be historically accurate, so if they wanted Erimem to be dark skinned, she would have been portrayed as such. Epsilon (Contact me) 22:23, October 20, 2020 (UTC)