Talk:Time field/Archive 1

Keep calm and stay focused.

Please abide by our discussion policy and be nice to other editors in this discussion. Remember: this talk page is only for discussing the editing of the attached article. Take speculation to The Howling, our general discussion forum. Messages not having to do with the improvement of the article may be deleted.

Spelling Errors

i before e except after c. Briefly is spelled wrong on the page.

I love it when people get corrected, especially when you spelt spelt wrong as well! (No such thing as spelled!) LOL 212.159.18.224 11:28, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, "spelled" is the only acceptable spelling in the US, and the more common variant in most Commonwealth countries, and an acceptable but uncommon variant even in the UK. While the articles here are (I think) expected to follow UK English, I think people are allowed to use their native dialect in talk pages. --Falcotron 01:11, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sonic Screwdriver vs. The Cracks

What follows The Cracks? Silence, right? What's the oppisite of Silence? Noise. Another word for Noise, Sound. Sound-Sonic. Sonic-Sonic Screwdriver. Maybe the Doctor won't die, but his Screwdriver will, it's travelled with him! -Tom

Poster Crack

No trick can get past me! haha! Kranitoko 20:20, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Pandorica may be the doing of Pandorica... Maybe?

Could it? There are some similarities. Do you think that she is still alive in the corner of the mind of some Time Lord, and with the Events of the episode "End of Time" she could have escaped, somehow... Doing so it could have created the cracks in time, because she was not supposed to be in there, but she is so powerful (or so vague, not living, never "existing") that entities like the Reapers can't detect her...

But this is only my theory... But at this moment it's the only one that I like xP L Mars 23:08, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

The Black Guardian

I don't know why but I have a feeling the Black Guardian is the new ultimate enemy. Think about we haven't seen the guardians in the new series though there have been suspicions about the Woman from the end of time was the White guardian so it seams appropriate they should show up sooner or later. Also in the old series the Guardians had immense power and the Black Guardian strives to create chaos and destruction. Ripping apart the universe or damaging the universe with the craks seams like something he could do easily. Its just a theory of mine so don't hate me for throwing in my 10 cents.

Another Crack?

Not really worth mentioning, but watch the 3D pre-Alice in Wonderland series trailer again (starlit sky, ye olde "Doctor Who?" joke, flying through vortex with a measly three enemies that we already know about).

Before Smith and Gillian fall into the time vortex the grass physically cracks rather than just giving way. Sneaky...

Any light on to what that thing at the end is would be cool, too.

81.97.251.86 23:58, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
Do you mean the thing that looks like a mask at the end of the trailer? If so, that's the new design of a Silurian
(or one of two new designs for them) they'll be in two episodes starting with "The Hungry Earth". 86.138.134.150 00:00, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: Also, in the second episode towards the end, the Doctor's looking out over a beautifully CGI'd starscape and Amy hands the mask to him. It could just be me or the badly aging windows they're looking out of, but doesn't the universe he's looking at seem cracked to anyone else?

81.97.251.86 23:37, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

No, sorry. The cracks are patently in the window, not the universe. This is clear when you watch the scene in motion, not just a single still frame.

Story Arc - Zero

OK, so we know "silence will fall" is a dead cert for some cataclysmic universe-threatening thing in the finale, the 'Pandorica' is going to 'open', and the story arc involves 'cracks' in the universe of which we've already seen two and the one the Doctor's monitoring. But something's linking them all together.

Prisoner Zero was the antagonist of the first episode.
The Doctor sent the number 0 throughout the entirety of 21st Century Earth.
The kid in the intro of the second episode (Timmy?) got a zero on some cyber-homework...
...and was subsequently punished for getting on that elevator. On the display, the floor he was dropped to read "000".

...maybe?

81.97.251.86 23:34, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Steven Moffat has stated that there are five features of the new series that will keep appearing like bad wolf did. The cracks are one and it seems "0" could be another one. Seems plausible. Oh also the last one about reaching floor 000 doesn't really count because he was being sent to the star whale to be eaten at the centre of the ship, so he would naturally be on the bottom floor Yun Fang 18:48, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

The Pandorica references could be another reoccuring feature. Meta-Levia, 16:30, May 4, 2010 (GMT)

This may sound stupid but what about perception filters. I've noticed they are getting mentioned more in series 5. Alpha111 08:56, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

The End of Time

The End of Time crack cannot be involved in this page. It is likely it has nothing to do with this. If you put this in, every mention of cracking something throughout the series would have to be incorporated. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 09:26, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Can you show me a picture of this crack. So then I can determine whether it can be included.Dalekcaan14 15:35, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

The Cracks are getting bigger

Looking at the craks through the episode they seam to be changing and getting larger almost like something is trying to push its way through.

Yeah, and the crack in the trailer for "Flesh and Stone" was partway open. Bluebox444 18:34, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Theres a slight problem with your theory. Look at the photos, the first crack on Amy's wall spans half of it, the 2nd is on a mini-TARDIS screen, the 3rd is like miles long on the side of the Starship UK, the 4th one is a bit smaller than Amy's one and the 5th one is about the same size as the first or 4th one. While I have noticed it, it doesnt seem plausable really Ooiue 21:12, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Point proven in cold blood. The doctor could fit his hand in one when he couldnt before. 86.153.222.53 00:08, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The Cracks Are Glowing

What's interesting about the cracks in episode 2 onwards is that they are glowing. The crack on Amy's room in The Eleventh Hour did not glow until the Doctor forced it open with the Sonic Screwdriver. Is someone/something on the other side trying to force these cracks open? Aussie Doc 13:24, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Good point! I noticed that too. Bluebox444 18:34, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe him opening the first one activated all of them? V00D00M0NKY 07:22, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Voodoomonky makes a good point Doctorpenguin 18:40, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

More than one or all the same?

I wonder - judging by the fact that the cracks are all exactly the same shape, maybe the "cracks" are all one particular crack following the Doctor and Amy around. Maybe it's some kind of entity that exists in the form of a crack in space and time. After all, Radio Free Skaro implied that there was some kind of "silent menace" following the Doctor and Amy on their travels. Bluebox444 18:34, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

I doupt it because prisoner zero said 'the cracks in the skin of the universe - don't you know where they came from?' cracks being plural. And the sister of the water said her race saw different types of cracks. Pharap 20:38, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Title change?

Now that "Flesh and Stone" has aired, do we keep calling this page "The Cracks" or should we change it to "The Crack?" Bluebox444 23:54, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

The Doctor said that the Crack contained Time Energy in Flesh and Stone. Maybe the name should be changed to 'Time Energy'. Meta-Levia 16:28, May 4, 2010 (GMT)

Why The Name Change?

Why has the name of this page been changed to "Time Shield"? The Nth Doctor 01:36, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I were just going to post the same question :S, think some one should change it back unless theres a good reason for the change?Alex1442 01:40, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

The Doctor calls the crack a Time Shield. I love the new name, too. Delton Menace 02:19, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Time Shield is the only name given besides 'The Crack in my Bedroom'. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 03:35, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just checking is it confirmed it's called a time shield? I swear the Doctor and Angel Bob said time field

This is an unhelpful name change, though it may be supported by Flesh and Stone. The predominant name for this phenomenon is something which has the word "crack" in it. Now, I'm not saying we yet have the best possible name for it, so I can't offer an immediate name change, but The Cracks was actually a better name than this, in terms of maximizing comprehensibility of the topic. Calling them "time shields" — and allowing that name to be used in articles — is going to create more confusion than not, I think. Especially if it turns out later that the term was used in only this episode.

I personally don't even buy the name at all, really. I've watched the episode twice and don't recall the name at all. Could anyone point to an exact time code of the moment the term was used? What I hear from Angel Bob is "time field", not "time shield". And actually it doesn't describe the crack itself but what's inside the crack. CzechOut ☎ | ✍

Bob also calls it a "rupture in time". Why is that term less valid than "time shield" or "crack in time" or "the cracks"? CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 12:55, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

There is no mention of them being called time shields in any episodeLiamhenney 12:59, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Liamhenney

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this article is actually talking about two different things, and that's making its focus blurred. There are the cracks themselves, and then there's what's inside the crack, and there should be two separate articles on each, or possibly two very clear sections in the same article. The cracks themselves aren't causing the rewriting the history; that's being caused by what's variously called in this episode the "time energy", the "explosion at the end of the universe" and the "time field". CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 13:19, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to change it back to The Crack or whatever, unless anyone has any strong objections. -- MisterRandom2

By the way, how DO you change the title of an article? -- MisterRandom2 17:16, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, I figured it out. -- MisterRandom2 17:38, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Changed it just as i finished editing. Curses....... Fan555 17:39, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

He definately said Time Shield. So many things are wrong with Cracks in Time. 1) It isn't a plural 2) It is so much more than just a crack in time, its a whole Time Shield. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 08:00, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

I Think More People Would Search for the Cracks rather than The Time Field Liamhenney 21:52, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ok. I think we're all forgetting the purpose of the wiki. We're supposed to call things by the names that are given to them in the show. It was called a time field by the Doctor, it should be named time field. Redirects were invented for this exact reason, so people who search for cracks, end up at the correct page. Mc hammark 21:55, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Could the 'time field' not just be referring to the field of Time Energy the crack produced? That would explain how the time field could "catch up" with Amy. The crack wasn't moving, after all. In every other episode, and in that one, they were called cracks, not time fields. -Ravrahn2 00:38, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I like this theory 86.153.222.53 00:12, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well, in Vampires of Venice, it was confirmed that there are actually a lot of cracks. However, the one that's appeared in several episodes so far appears to be the same one every time - the one from Amy's bedroom. Maybe we need one article for the Cracks in general and one for that particular crack. In any case, I think this article should be called "The Cracks". The Doctor only used the term "time field" once; I'm not sure it's that important. Bluebox444 10:51, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Doctor called it a crack when he thought it was simply a crack in space/time. Then when he actually analysed one he called it a time field. And this time it was the "vampires" which called it cracks, not the Doctor, and they would since that is what they look like, but the scientific name is time field. Mc hammark 11:34, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should set up a poll to see what is the more popular idea. Personally I think it should be cracks for simplicity now because it is the most common usage. But if anyone knows how, set up one of those page polls to see which works best for people. Pharap 20:44, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I demand somebody get a screenshot of a subtitled point where it is called the time shield/field because i cant find it anywhere 86.153.222.53 00:12, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

___

--Hello. I'm very new here, and I found this site by actually searching for information on the Time Crack. The first thing I typed into Google was, "Time Crack, Doctor Who" I found this page alright. The next thing I did was to refine my search, "Cracks in Time" Meddling Fool 13:54, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I went and looked through the subtitles. Here's what I found:

The Doctor, 00:12:05.830: "Oh, this isn't even a little bit good. / I mean, is that it? / Is that the power that brought you here? / That's pure time energy, you can't feed on that, / that's the fire at the end of the universe."
The Doctor, 00:28:12.870: "There's time energy spilling out of that crack and you have to stay ahead of it."
The Doctor, 00:28:26.830: "If the Time Energy catches up with you, you'll never have been born. It will erase / every moment of your existence. You will never have lived at all."
The Doctor, 00:29:04.830: "The Angels. Running from the fire. / They came here to feed on the time energy. now it's going to feed on them."
River/Doctor 00:29:37.510: "That time energy. What's it going to do? / Err. Keep eating. / How do we stop it? Feed it. Feed it what? A big complicated space-time event should shut it up for a while. / Like what? For instance? (shouting) Like me. For instance!"
Angel Bob, 00:33:02.110: "The Time Field is coming. It will destroy our reality."
Angel Bob, 00:33:08.310: "There is a rupture in time. / The Angels calculate that if you throw yourself into it, it will close. and they will be saved."
The Doctor, 00:34:55.670: "The Angels all fell into the time field. The Angel in your memory never existed."
Amy/Doctor, 00:35:19.950: "And the crack. / Is that gone too? / Yeah. / For now. But the explosion that caused it / is still happening... / ...somewhere out there. / Somewhere in time."

So, after studying the crack, the Doctor refers to "time energy spilling out of the crack." He ties that energy to the explosion, "the fire at the end of the universe." He uses the term "time energy" repeatedly. Angel Bob refers to the Time Field instead of the "time energy", and to the crack as a "rupture in time". The Doctor uses the term "time field" a grand total of once. At the end of the episode, he explicitly says that the crack is gone, but the explosion (the thing that the time energy comes from) is still happening. The crack is never called a "time field", and not every crack has any associated time energy, so the name for this article is completely wrong. --Falcotron 08:50, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Prisoner Zero?

I mean, I guess the easy explanation behind this is that Prisoner Zero knows more about the cracks than most characters we've seen so far, but in the Eleventh Hour, it uses the crack to escape it's prison. In Flesh and Stone, it's said that the crack destroys all memories and traces of a creature's existence in time. So how exactly would PZ be able to escape through the crack, as said in the episode? Wouldn't it be wiped from existance? -*IP address here...* 04:06, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

There are different types of cracksOzzymonkey 13:40, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well, any answer will be just speculation until they tell us all the details, but there are all kinds of possible answers.

For example, imagine that the crack is nothing more complicated than a wormhole, except that it's for some reason attracted to the big cataclysmic event at Amy's wedding on 26 Jun 2010. At first, one end gets drawn to Amy in 1996 and sticks in her bedroom for 14 years, while the other is flailing around in spacetime and ends up on the Atraxi prison. As Amy starts traveling around time, the "near" end is following her around, but the "far" end eventually made it way to the end of history, at which point the "time energy" started pouring through it.

So, until the far end reached that end of history, whenever it happened to pass through any inhabited areas, people could have used it to travel to Amy's bedroom, or to space next to Starship UK, or to the War Room during the Blitz. But who, other than a condemned prisoner, would want to do that? --Falcotron 11:01, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

In The vampires of venice, the Sister of the water said that there are 2 types of cracks. One shows other worlds (prisoner zero type crack) and through the other there is silence (weeping angel type crack)Pharap 20:49, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I forgot I had made this comment section. Hmm... Just watched Vampires of Venice, seems like the 2 types of cracks thing sounds like a reasonable enough answer. I just wish Falcotron's answer was the correct one, it sounds so much cooler. Ahh well, question answered, I guess. -*Same IP address as above here* 17:09, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible that Prisoner Zero DIDN'T know about the cracks, but thought that if he went through it, the Atraxi would forget him, but that he would still live. Maybe he KNEW that it was a wormhole-type crack, and wanted to escape "the darkness". Maybe Prisoner zero knows how to MAKE wormhole cracks, or at least knows how to control them. We'll just have to wait till the end of the series to find out. 78.149.48.23 13:39, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

onThe Venice Crack Picture

Where the hell is the crack? I don't see any crack in the sky in that picture... I will admit, however, that after watching the episode for a second time, I could have swore I saw the crack very, very briefly in the sky myself. I did it it, for like one second. But after I keep rewatching that scene, I can't see it anymore, and I certainly don't see it in the Venice sky picture. Could someone tell me where it is on there? Delton Menace 01:31, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Compare the shape to the picture of the tardis console gallery image where the crack is open and more like a sort of smile, but I'm not totally convinced! .. however, there is another crack much earlier, (and given the importance of the date of the wedding day).... in Amy's bedroom wall (again!) in the panning shot from the answerphone to the wedding dress but above it in the wall at 2.10 mins 86.26.137.154 07:35, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

well if you ask me the cracks fall through time i mean excluding the trip with river theyve gone back in time so mabe a better name for this article would be tempral fissuresAzerath storm 10:46, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Crack was cleary seen neer the end of the episode when the skys cleared up.89.139.20.17 18:24, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The keyhole is NOT a crack. Stop putting it up. Musedae 00:00, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Zoomed in on lock, a crack, shining, appears, zooms straight into the time vortex. I think this crack is better than the clud one, which was just the clouds clearing. If, later there is no mention of the keyhole being a crack, get rid of it, but before this happens keep it on. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 09:36, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree entirely. It's just a keyhole. I've checked that freezeframe three times. This has been talked about on at least two other pages, and it's a tenous link at best. I didn't remove it this time, but it's not there, and I feel as though we should keep it off. The cloud one is an obvious crack. Musedae 19:51, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Niehter of them have cracks. The clouds are just... clouds, and the keyhole is just the keyhole, no cracks there. Delton Menace 19:58, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

There was absolutely no light in the lock, except for the time vortex. I'm more inclined to the clouds, but that's STILL iffy. It's not as obvious as I would have earlier said, but it's similar to a crack as we can get. Musedae 20:08, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I dont think the keyhole thing is a crack, they just did that as a red herring. And i have no clue where this supposed 'cloud crack' is, does anyone have a timing for the episode on the doctor who website? Pharap 21:21, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the fact the crack is mentioned in dialogue is the actual episode reference and there is nothing visual as well because that crack closed itself 86.26.137.154 06:30, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

"...some as big as the sky." and then a "Crack" appears in the clouds as Venice goes Silent? On purpose? Anyone? -Tom

I replayed the scene, the picture is too early. It looks smushed. If you do it a few seconds later though, it looks just like the other cracks! For the people asking about the time, it's when the Doctor turns off the machine and the rain stops. -Tom

First, sign your name. Second, that is a cloud passing over the sun, not a crack. Pharap 22:27, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's the SUN, but notice the shape the clouds take beneath the dark one! Very... Crack-Like... -Tom

Firstly you have to use four ~ to sign your name, secondly, it looks like it, but you can tell it isnt because the light rays arent in line with it, they are in line with the sun.

Also with the new information about the tardis being shrapnel of the explosion and rory's anology between the tardis (namely the doors) and the cracks both being 2 dimentions that are linked i think the lock might be a crack, and if not then that crack shape near the lock might be. [[Special:Contributions/86.153.222.53|Pharap 00:51, June 1, 2010 (UTC)]]

IN THE NEWEST DWA THEY SAY THE KEYHOLE MAY BE A CRACKOGREPOP 18:23, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

OGREPOP, please post at the end of the section instead of in the middle of other people's posts (I moved it for you), and don't shout in all caps like that.

Anyway, if you look at the section #Venice crack is real, someone else (who didn't sign his post) already provided this information, although he said that they "confirmed" that it's a crack, while you say they just said it "may be a crack". I haven't read it myself; I'm inclined to believe you over the other guy, but it would be nice to have an exact quote. --Falcotron 18:40, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Name change

MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS AND LEAVE IT AS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--WarGrowlmon18 19:32, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Calm down WarGowlmon. I've asked one of the Admins to step in. A user keeps changing it, not even to the correct spelling, to the colloquial term, rather than the scientific term given to it. Mc hammark 19:41, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Calm down man. We're working on getting it fixed, as McHammark said. I'm going to go and leave a message for Liam though, this is getting ridiculous. Musedae 19:41, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Cyberking

according to flesh and stone the events of the next doctor being forgotten has something to do with the cracks. The events of Dalek were also forgotten which has not been referenced yet. any thoughts?Assassin of death 01:35, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

They weren't only forgoten, they were rewritten/unwritten from time, but only remember by time travelers, who are unaffected by changes to time and history. Delton Menace 02:55, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I think the cyberking events might be linked to a later episode because of the broken cyberman seen in the trailer. eg the doctor and amy find a way to partially reverse the silence and half restore a cyberman from that time. Pharap 22:29, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

The Venice Crack

It's the clouds... DuduDoctor 12:57, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by that picture, it just looks like coincidental silver lining to me, and even then it doesn't look like the other cracks. TomJ 19:33, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Look, so many disagree, so I'm erasing it. The Doctor Who Site, (very big speculation hub) doesn't even think it was a crack, so, sorry, but it goes. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 06:51, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Theory on nature of The Cracks in Time

When a crack appears, always look at what is going on in the scene surrounding the crack, what is being said by the characters.

It appears that the cracks are related to the feeling of "Loneliness".

Here's a partial breakdown. . .

-The one in Amelia's wall is right next to where that little girl would feel the loneliest. Brought from Scotland and has no parents. . ? That's one lonely kid.
-The one in the Tardis, (on the tardis television/oscilloscope thingy) -The Doctor is describing why he wants a companion; he's been talking to himself, and he's getting an ear-ache. Amy says, "You're lonely? That's all?" He thinks, responds, and turns off the monitor featuring the crack image, and the audience is treated with a deliberate "LOOK HERE!!!!" instant where there is a micro second anomoly in the actual BBC video stream, (at least there was on my copy. Did anybody else get that?). The effect actually feels, not just metaphorically, like an actual crack in the reality/time of the show. Clever! The Doctor even seems to feel this, but he continues on with the scene.
The Beast Below. --That huge crack in the side of "Space Ship England". Why? Well, the star whale or whatever it's called, is also an extraordinarily lonely creature, last of its race, being tormented by unloving citizens. That opened up a crack.
Daleks. . ? (Can't remember where the crack was.)
Flesh and Stone. --The "LONELY" Angles? The angels are actually paying tribute and trying to feed on the crack, but in the end it swallows them. Same theme, but a powerfully different angle on it.

I didn't really go into this deeply, and these are just the instances which jump out at me, so that's my theory as of the moment. (Now please commence tearing it to shreds if you think it's wrong. :-)

Oh, and here's an unsubstantiated side-theory which stems from my gut instincts. I think the cracks are related directly to the Doctor himself; not Amy, but we'll have to wait and see. . .

Cheers!

Meddling Fool 14:18, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Meddling Fool, 1. I think your idea is brilliant! and 2. The Weeping angels are also known as the LONELY ASSASINS not lonely angels but no offence. Alpha111 19:34, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure but whatabout... Daleks, Bracewell was lonely as he missed Dorabella. Also, in angels 2 parter Sacred / scared Bob died alone and in fear and the angels wanted the Doctor to know it. Then Amy is alone and scared in the forest after the clerics disappear into the crack 86.26.137.154 06:19, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

From a Doctor Fan-

Personally I think the Doctor is right that it is all about Amy. As he said time can be rewritten and I think that what is being rewritten is something to do with Amy Pond but it is something that is a fixed point in time rather than one in flux and that something the Doctor is doing is changing the fixed point causing the fractures or explosion. I personally think it has to do with Amy Pond's romantic interest and possible children with Rory that will be important to the future and that if she winds up being with the Doctor then something will have changed. Failing that Amy herself may be the Pandorica River was referring or similarly to the events concerning the Black and White Guardians may be a component of the Pandorica.

I think that this is a very good idea and also on the 2 parter angel one, it got bigger as everyone was running away from it so it was feeling at its lonliest.

Kalaandalek 06:43, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

It's a good theory - Maybe the crack in Cold Blood was because Alaya had died and everyone Restac had awakened had abandoned her - she was alone.HaveFaith 06:20, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

When it appears....

Has anyone noticed that whenever the doctor does something heroic the crack appears?

The Beast Below: After saving the Star Whale

Victory of the Daleks: After winning the war

The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone: After saving Amy (closing eyes)

Vampires of Venice: After stopping the storm

Anyone else noticed?

In Victory of the Daleks they didn't win the war amd in Flesh and Stone it happened before the Doctor saved Amy's life.Darkraider09 11:26, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Thinking about this, IMHO it is more accurate to say the cracks appear after the doctor is faced with an impossible choice or seemingly no choice at all!

The Doctor didn't save the Star Whale but Amy did, he was going to electrocute it and change his name.

He had to choose to destroy the Daleks for ever or let Earth be destroyed.

Then the acceptance that Octavian had to die so he could escape the angel, and the anger at having to use himself to close the crack.

Not so sure about VoV though, and of course we then have Amy's Choice .... Any thoughts ? 86.26.137.154 10:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'm really starting to think that the crack is flailing about in time, just as everyone else does. But the Doctor keeps talking about points that are fixed in time, and those that aren't. What if the little alterations he is making attract the crack? Like, the Angels muck with your timeline so they can feed on the extra energy. What if the cracks are time-sensitive and "travel" to a certain point after an alteration has been made? Other than the crack in Amy's bedroom, all the others have appeared after the change has been made in the timeline of the story. After the Star Whale was saved...after the Daleks left Earth (assuming they would have stayed longer and done ALOT more damage)...after the soldiers were saved (assuming they still went there before the Doctor appeared in the plot, they would have probably died where the Angels were converging and in our version of events the Doctor had them jump). You see what I mean? Gixander 05:43, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Did you even watch Victory? BlueDalek 17:36, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone happen to notice the date of Amy's wedding and the start of all the cracks.

06/26/2010 also happens to fall on the date of the last Dr. Who episode of the season. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Genius! -- Sorceror Nobody 18:33, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that's been discussed in the Howling etc. Additionally, a contributor posted elsewhere a while ago (sorry can't remember which discussion page or if on wikipedia instead), it's also the date of a partial lunar eclipse which links in with Stonehenge being the setting for part of the finale 86.26.137.154 08:25, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Update I found it... topic 8 on the discussion page for Flesh and Stone, posted by Mc hammark 86.26.137.154 10:22, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Who deleted the last two cracks?85.250.46.91 18:15, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

torchwoodguy, but i undood it because there is no reason to delete them :DOoiue 18:17, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Conjecture that there is 2 types of 'crack'/conflation of cracks with the 'time field'?

The article suggests there is two 'types' of crack based on differences in their observed behaviour - this is not really confirmed. Also there seems to be some possible conflation of the time field/energy released from the crack in Flesh and Stone and the cracks themselves, the matter of their nature has not been substantiate enough for any authoritative sounding explanation at this point I think? DreamSong 07:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well in Vampires of Venice they said that some cracks had worlds on the other side while others there was just silence(similar to the one in Flesh and Stone). I think that would qualify as 2 types of cracks, those you can travel through and those that consume. V00D00M0NKY 07:51, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

With having watched Cold Blood, we have to take another look at this. The Doctor clearly puts his hand through the crack and grabs that chunk of the door. And yet Rory is still removed from time by the crack. Perhaps someone coming into contact with the crack is not what causes them to be removed from time. Perhaps the crack has to go after someone to "sterilize" time. What if the cracks are removing things to set the timeline right again? That'd be an interesting twist. Otherwise, I don't think those clerics just walked into it; I think the crack actually took them the way it took Rory. However, we have to re-evaluate the two crack thing. Gixander 05:49, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ya these cracks are definitely extremely complex but they were talking about 2 distinct cracks in VoV. The cracks may be evolving. If they are evolving then that explains why they seem to have so many variations. They said in the end of CB that the crack is growing. The also referred to it as "the crack" not cracks, which leaves the question is it all one crack or are there multiple cracks like what was described in VoV. I think we will have to wait till the finale story before enough is revealed for us to understand them properly, most everything else is just speculation for now. V00D00M0NKY 07:23, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

I may be mis-remembering, but I think the Doctor indicated that it was one crack in time that was appearing in different places - as he mentioned in Eleventh Hour, the crack(s) are not 'in' the world they appear (ie. the wall of Amy's room) but in time. Also, the 'time field' I thought is the absorbing energy that is 'sometimes' released from the crack(s), rather than the cracks themselves - what I was unsure of when I posted the question - are we conflating the cracks with the time field energy that is sometimes released from them? DreamSong 07:20, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I apparently missed this section when adding Talk:Time Field#Types of crack, which says largely the same thing.

The fact that some cracks have worlds on the other side and others only have silence doesn't mean that they're different kinds of cracks. There could easily be only the "wormhole" type; it's just that some of the wormholes open onto "silence". Presumably, time energy leaks through the latter. Or, for that matter, there could even be some that open to "silence and the end of all things" (as Rosanna said) and yet others that open directly to the "big bang" (which may not be the same thing), and the latter is the one that leaks time energy. We really don't know.

So, I edited the article to no longer say that there are two kinds of crack. But, even though I think the best interpretation is that there's only one kind of crack, I didn't put that into the article either, because that's just as speculative.

As for the difference between Rory and the Doctor, as I explained elsewhere, there's a very simple explanation. First, it took time to erase Rory--we're not sure how long, but he was still visible after they were in the TARDIS with the door closed. And Rory's barely time-traveled at all--less than River, who's equivalent to less than a single Weeping Angel, while the Doctor is a "complicated space-time event", equivalent to at least a whole army of Angels. Finally, we can see and hear the Doctor struggling mightily with the time energy while his hand is in the crack; Rory, being dead, obviously doesn't struggle at all. So, presumably, it would have taken a lot more effort to erase the Doctor than a few seconds of groping around. --Falcotron 08:02, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Also, I agree that it's a mistake to conflate the cracks with the time field. Maybe the cracks in the Byzantium and the Silurian city could be called "time fields", but the one that let Amelia hear voices and Prisoner Zero escape to her house, or the ones that open onto "worlds and people" that Rosanna mentioned, or the one that she and her family fled through to reach Earth? If that's a "time field", then "time field" has nothing to do with "time energy", which seems pretty implausible. --Falcotron 08:25, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Venice Crack

This is a crack. They are not cracks in the wall, they are cracks in time and space therefore can appear. It isn't just a coincidence, it was put there. So, just leave the picture there. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 16:45, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Amy's Choice crack

A friend asked me if this could be a crack. I leave it here so that you might see it. I have no idea whether it's just space or a crack. - Sacchi

All cracks look the same, in one shape and face the same way. This is a portion and it is vertical, not horizontal so it is not a crack. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 20:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

I believe in an interview, Moffat said that the cracks would appear in "most every" episode. But we have to remember that the majority of "Amy's Choice" took place within two dream worlds, and since the cracks are splits in the Universe, they probably wouldn't carry over into a dream world, since it's only within their minds, rather than being an actual reality. Musedae 21:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Since when are cracks horizontal? And do you really think there is such a thing as a vertical or a horizontal in space? Jollygreen-giant 17:36, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

It Looks Like the Left Side of one of the cracks so it is possible... Liamhenney 16:11, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

If you ask me you can tell what a crack is because it will be so obvious because it will glow and the music will change and the camera will zoom in Maverick707 20:41 June 2, 2010 (GMT)

A theory on The Cracks

Maybe it could of been the events of The Stolen Earth and Journey's End that caused The Crack since the Daleks damaged the universe pretty badly. Redranger241 20:15, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting theory. Maybe the reality bomb is the Pandorica? V00D00M0NKY 20:09, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

No. Moffat doesn't want anything related to the Davies era. I think he is trying to sort of get rid of it in some ways. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 20:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Really, he did mention the events of The Next Doctor, and the series 4 finale in a couple of episodes. Redranger241 16:39, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. He mentioned that they had been removed from time. Therefore, they have been gotten rid of, as well as the RTD Daleks. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 15:46, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I hate Moffat! He erased the events of The Stolen Earth, Journey's End, The Next Doctor and possibly other good stories from history! That means that Davros never exsisted if I'm right!!!! Kerange 08:32, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

No it just means that those events didn't take place, and that Dalek Caan never saved Davros and probably perished with Davros in the Time WarOoiue 08:34, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

What!? Those stories had TERRIBLE writing! Ok, the Next Doctor was good but the others, well. Come on! Fan555 08:40, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

The cracks are all prolly gonna be reversed because rory is supposed to be in the next series or the christmas special. plus the tardis obviously wasnt wiped from history in the explosion. [[Special:Contributions/86.153.222.53|Pharap 01:02, June 1, 2010 (UTC)]]

Second Venice 'Crack'

That is obviously not a crack. It is a roughly straight line that is not properly straight because clouds do not have straight lines. It is definitely not a crack. ~~Whoever put it up is an idiot.~~ ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 16:30, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Think about what you say and who you may be insulting before you say something on the internet. I believe it is a crack, and it should remain on this site for the public to see and for them to make personal conclusions about it - not to insult people. Jollygreen-giant 16:37, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry but it doesn't look anything like a crack. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 17:47, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that comment about the user, I'm guessing it is you. I was in a bad mood. Try not to let it happen again. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 13:17, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Gallery

Just now I've removed all "possible" cracks from the gallery. I think it's best that if you believe a crack is a crack, that you post the image here and the community discusses it. Only confirmed cracks should be in the gallery at the moment, so please no more adding and removing without discussion, it's beginning to get ridiculous. Mc hammark 16:48, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough - why then, is there still a "possible" crack from TVoV in the gallery? I'm not too sure about that particular "crack" Jollygreen-giant 17:34, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I've removed it. Unless we actually see the crack, we can't say for certain any of them are. Mc hammark 17:37, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

People are adding unconfirmed cracks again. I'll keep deleting them, but could we get in some Admin support here? Fan555 08:48, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ive created a section for unconfirmed cracks, it will help ease the tensionOoiue 08:50, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Tension? He was swearing at me! Fan555 08:53, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

just calm down ok? ive added that for specualtion and for less arguements Ooiue 08:57, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

It was a REAL crack! Just look at it and you'll see! The other one is DEFINETLY a cloud! THE REAL CRACK IS THE SKY CRACK! Kerange 09:07, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

its debatable so ive put it in the unconfirmed cracks. if such the cracks are revealed to be confirmed, they shall be moved but for now, they stay where ive put them Ooiue 09:09, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Vampires of Venice Crack

The original one is a crack. The second one isn't. This is definitely a crack. It is exactly the same shape of the others therefore should be put back on. It is not a possible crack but is a crack. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 17:43, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

In your opinion. And, if you look at the cracks that we are all agreed are cracks, they change shape slightly as the series progresses. Jollygreen-giant 17:49, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

It was nothing but clouds. The cracks are exactly what their names says - cracks, with light seeping through them. Not clouds. Besides, at the end of Flesh and Stone, the Doctor says that the crack has been stopped for a while, and won't be back for quite some time. Therefore, there won't be any crack until quite a while after Flesh and Stone, when it opens up again. Delton Menace 18:29, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, in his timeline. That doesn't mean to say that they haven't been closed relative to the Timeline of the cracks. Jollygreen-giant 18:44, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

The cracks don't have their own timeline, they're something new to the Doctor Who universe, they will just appear anywhere and anywhen when they're acting up again. When the Doctor stopped the crack in Flesh and Stone, that was the last time it would be heard from for a while. It doesn't have a timeline. It, in a sense, doesn't follow time, it just appears whenever when it's, say, hungry. It will be a while following Flesh and Stone before the crack is hungry again, and appears where he goes next. The crack following them in, really, following their timeline of traveling. Where they go, that individual crack goes. Delton Menace 08:09, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Who knows... I think it was a crack. Theoretically speaking, everything has to have, by definition, a timeline - in the case of the cracks, it was something that happened on 26.06.2010 that caused the cracks in the first place, causing them ripple back and forwards through time. It's possible the cracks aren't following them - they could be following the cracks.Jollygreen-giant 08:23, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

interesting theory, but when they occured on that date, they rippled back through time, like the DoctorDonna meetings and all that from series 4. in effect, the cracks dont have a timeline as they are the ones creating the gaps in time and are occuring wherever the Doctor and Amy are. it is a "multi-crack gateway" which i am now calling, which mans a single crack has gateways accross the universe. i could be wrong but im calling it that :DOoiue 08:27, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Things can ripple forwards as well... the DoctorDonna meeting only rippled back along DONNA'S personal timeline. There's a difference. Jollygreen-giant 08:33, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

The cracks don't have a timeline, they're simply cracks spread throughout time and space, and some of them are doing things to the history, from erasing people to erasing entire events without much consequences on the future from the event removed. It's like, when the Weeping Angels were erased, the Byzantium remained crashed. It's very weird. Even though the cracks erase, it doesn't change the outcome for some reason. As the Doctor said, the Weeping Angel that was in Amy's Mind... never even existed after the crack got to it. Just, wow. I bet that's what happened to all those Daleks, too, and perhaps once ship escaped. Or, as noted, the outcome wasn't change, despite the event being removed. This crack is serious business. But most likely when the crack has been stopped, it itself will be erased from history, meaning it never did appear anywhere in any place because it was removed, too.

Did that make any sense? Or, Doctor Who can be so confusing sometimes. Get me a coffee. Delton Menace 11:43, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

STOP ADDING IMAGES OF SUPPOSED CRACKS TO THE CONFIRMED CRACKS SECTION UNLESS THEY ARE CONFIRMED!!!!! Fan555 08:47, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Another theory on the cracks

i was just rewatching Flesh and Stone, and the Doctor mentioned the end of the universe when speaking about the crack. in River Song's timeline, they visit the end of the universe........so....yeahOoiue 16:09, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

He describes the time energy as "the fire at the end of the universe". He later refers to the time energy as coming from the temporal explosion. I believe by "end of the universe" he means that the big bang temporal explosion at Amy's wedding will destroy the universe, not that the crack has opened to the big rip or heat death or whatever happens umpteen years past the end of Utopia.

But then River could mean the exact same thing by "end of the universe". The Doctor didn't seem to take it that way at the time, but that doesn't mean anything--she seems to say ambiguous things often, and he doesn't always take them right. --Falcotron 09:51, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

A (would you believe it) third possible crack from The Vampires of Venice

File:Possible Vampires crack.jpg

Possible crack from TVoV

I was watching The Vampires of Venice again last night, and noticed this... what do we all think? Is it the crack? (if you're wondering where in the episode that is, it's at 2 mins 10 secs) It sprung to mind because it seemed odd that they showed that particular scene, when in fact, it wasn't essential to the plot - Rory could have simply carried on talking into his phone, rather than us hearing him on the answerphone in Amy's room. I've put it here for now to discuss - it can always go into the gallery if we agree on it. Jollygreen-giant 13:14, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thats a wardrobe, not a crack. It looks nothing like a crack. Fan555 13:42, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

It's not even Cracked! It's a Smooth line of a Wardrobe!

Yeah, that's not a crack. Mc hammark 22:29, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Jollygreen giant, I posted about this on May 9th ( 'The Crack' on VoV Talk Page) and was not agreed with then. However, since the area above the flat wardrobe top is very dark the way the shot has been lit, the curved line above it is not easy to make out. I agree it is a very strange shot choice since it is established by the dialogue that it's the night before the wedding, so why show us the wedding dress again ? and so differently from the panning at the end of TEH. I also compared other shots of the wardrobe top in the seduction scene in FaS 86.26.137.154 08:09, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

That ain't a crack! It's the wardrobe. It looks a bit like a crack, but you can tell it ain't one if you look closelyFallen5 15:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

not a crack

If you just tweak the brightness and contrast a bit, it becomes blindingly obvious that it's the line between the top of the wardrobe and the wall. (In the old days, I remember pausing a video cassette recorder and turning up the brightness knob on my TV, which adjusted the cathode ray tube inside, which I think somehow involved making the bird-like dinosaur that drew the scanlines on the inside of the CRT use more white paint, after which it would always look up at the audience and say, "Awk! It's a living!") --Falcotron 01:32, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Production error

has anyone noticed a mistake? the explosion is set to be on amy and rorys wedding day, yet rory has been erased from existance! how is that possibe?

That's a good point... maybe the crack in CB was a wormhole-type crack, as in TEH? -- Dragonfree OVER 3,500 EDITS 21:06, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Remember that they've also said it repeatedly that certain points in time are fixed...they cannot change (or at least what they probably mean is that the OUTCOME can't change, it has to end the same). What if the wedding was the original fixed point, and Rory's removal has started a chain reaction which has this explosion as one possible outcome? Here we've been thinking it's been Amy...what if there are other cracks that have been around Rory as well? The other statement I was thinking about was that it happened on their wedding day. What if it's not even that it's a fixed point? What if the only thing that this has in common with the wedding is the date? We know there's a massive enough explosion to rip a whole in time, and we know that the TARDIS was involved...what if the cracks weren't following Amy or Rory...but the TARDIS?Gixander 05:32, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

It could always be the, somehow, Rory will be saved and brought back. Maybe you can go into the cracks and, with the right stuff, can bring people back out into time. Just saying. And that could be how the cybermen are brought back for the final episode (since they are cybus cybermen in the episode and cybus cybermen in the cracks). Plus this may be a good way for the weeping angels to return. Fallen5 15:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

think. it it was on their wedding DAY. nothing has been said about their wedding taking place.Ooiue 15:15, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Does Rory make any difference? it's still going to explode on that day, whether some random couple are getting married then or not. BlueDalek 17:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

But don't you see the relevance of rory dying? I think that is exactly why the explosion happens. Two parts of space and time that should never have touched, rory and the time field. Then the events that were meant to happen became canceled, causing the cracks, and the pandorica opening. If you think deeper, there could even be a rip in the space time continuum because of this, seeing as the cracks date back to amy's bedroom in 1996, where she had already known rory (as far as we know). So i think, had he not died, the cracks would have never been created, and the whole of reality would have been on course. You see, if rory is the cause of the cracks, and the victim, then they are two parts of time and space and time that should never have touched, and also a paradox. - emmett33, June 5th 2:12 AM Toronto, Ontario.

Speculation

Sorry, Jollygreen-giant, but this is an encyclopedia on Dr Who. Speculation belongs on Forum:The Howling, not here. I personally have had enough of you finding 'Cracks' in any possible place they could be. The gallery is for cracks that we know are craks, not things that might be. I'm not getting into an argument over wether you possible cracks are or aren't becuase i'm not saying they aren't. Im just saying the cracks in The Eleventh Hour, The Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Flesh and Stone and Cold Blood can't possibly not be cracks, where as there is no hard evidence that yours are. You could create a good howling page all about these cracks, but they dn't belong on the Time Field page itself.

Sorry if I sounded, like a not very nice person, im angry bcuse my kybord isnt wokin propely. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 02:12, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Real cracks make "sounds"

Here's an observation that might help those confused by whether some things are Cracks: Every "legitimate" crack so far (Amelia's wall, the starship, the wall in the War Rooms, the Byzantium, the Silurian lab) has been accompanied by a distinct aural cue, a deep sound of 'dread'. It's really quite easy to pick up. I would hazard a guess that every Crack is accompanied by this audio cue, so the absence of the deep 'dread' sound could be taken as an indicator that a random piece of curvy geometry is not a Crack. Hack59 02:56, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Engagement Ring

Nobody seems to have pick up on the engagement ring. IMO, I think there is clearly a significance in it. I'm not a doctor who nerd who sits there and interprets every sentence, so I dont know how objects are affected when a person is erased from history by the crack. However in saturdays episode when the tardis lands back on the surface emphasis is put on the ring in the shot and the doctors face seems to suggest that he knows it shouldn't be there.188.221.207.214 00:33, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

First, please don't put extra spaces at the start of your comments, or it'll turn the whole thing into one long, non-word-wrapped line that nobody can read. (I fixed it for you.)

Second, people have talked about the engagement ring, just not here. Go to Forum:The Howling, which is dedicated to speculation, and you'll find discussion there. --Falcotron 01:15, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, while reorganizing the article, I added the fact that the Doctor saw the engagement ring in the TARDIS even after Rory was erased (but without commenting on what that could mean, because really we have no way of knowing what it means beyond speculating, which belongs in The Howling). --Falcotron 02:08, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Types of crack

I just went through the relevant parts of FaS, VoV, and CB (reading the subtitles, rather than watching, in the first two cases).

Nowhere does anyone say that there are two types of crack.

In particular, what Rosanna says is:

There were cracks. Some were tiny, some were as big as the sky. Through some we saw worlds and people, and through others we saw silence, and the end of all things.

This could be interpreted to mean that there are two types of cracks, one that acts like a wormhole and another that's filled with time energy.

But it could just as easily mean that there's only one type of crack, which acts like a wormhole, it's just that some are connected to other worlds, while others are connected to "silence and the end", which is why they're full of time energy.

In fact, I think the second interpretation is a lot simpler, and makes more sense. But, the first is still plausible. So, rather than rewriting it to remove any reference to types of cracks, I left it unstated in the article whether these are two types or not. (Although the heading "Types of crack" does kind of imply the former, which I don't like, so I may change that as well. It also sounds like something you'd see on a DEA website about the dangers of street drugs....) --Falcotron 02:07, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Good point. I didn't look at it as though they were all just wormholes some leading to silence. The "silence cracks" may lead to places that have already been erased or to a time where everything has already been erased. V00D00M0NKY 05:18, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

And that's a great point in return. I assumed the "silence cracks" were leading to the big bang explosion, or to the universe (or lack thereof) after that explosion, and that's where the time energy comes from. But it's possible that the "silence" is places that have already been erased.

In fact, it's even possible that there are _both_ "silence cracks" and "big bang cracks", in addition to traversable cracks. After all, the glowing white cracks we see aren't actually silent, if that ominous humming noise is in-universe rather than soundtrack.

True, Rosanna didn't say, "Through some we saw worlds and people, and through others only silence and the end of all things, plus there were some other ones that had a big humming explosion that was glowing white and putting out tendrils of time energy, but I hardly think those last are worth mentioning". But that may be because the "big bang cracks" are tied to the Doctor or Amy or the TARDIS for the same reason that the big bang itself is tied to them (whatever that turns out to be). If so, Rosanna wouldn't have seen any of them, while we've seen (other than the first) nothing but them.

PS, I still think "types of crack" and "varieties of crack" both have equally inappropriate connotations, but I can't think of a good name for the heading.... --Falcotron 08:17, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Rosanna's crack

Nowhere does Rosanna say that her world was swallowed by a crack. Here's what she says (taken from the subtitles):

Doctor: Why are you here?

Rosanna: We ran from the silence.

...

Doctor: The silence?

Rosanna: There were cracks. Some were tiny... some were as big as the sky. Through some we saw worlds and people and through others we saw silence... and the end of all things. We fled to an ocean like ours, and the crack snapped shut behind us and Saturnyne was lost.

In other words, they saw a bunch of cracks, some led to the silence, which scared them, so they jumped into one that led to a nice hospitable ocean, and then it shut behind them. So they're cut off from home, and they assume it's been destroyed, but they don't actually know that. --Falcotron 09:46, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Name change (again)

Please read #Why The Name Change? above for background.

It's pretty clear that there are three separate things in Flesh and Stone:

The temporal explosion (aka fire at the end of the universe), which happens on 26 June 2010.
The time energy (aka time field), which comes from the explosion and erases things from existence.
The crack (aka rupture in time), which opens onto the explosion and therefore allows time energy to leak through.

Meanwhile, that crack is one of many. It _may_ be the same single crack that we've seen in TEH, TBB, VotD, and CB, but that's (a) speculative, and (b) irrelevant, because it's clearly not the same crack as all of the many cracks that Rosanna descibed in VoV.

At least some cracks do not lead to the explosion or leak time energy. What we know is:

Some cracks lead to "worlds and people". And they can be traveled though. This includes the crack in Amelia's bedroom (or, if it's the same one following her, or the Doctor, or the TARDIS, around, it used to include that one but no longer does).
Some cracks lead to "silence, and the end of all things". We know nothing more about these.
Some cracks lead to the explosion, and leak time energy. This may or may not be the same as "silence" (see the section immediately above).

There's no evidence that these are different "types of crack".

I think this article should be renamed "the cracks", and heavily reorganized to speak primarily about the cracks in general, and then to have additional sections about the explosion, the time energy, and the crack (or cracks) that leads to the explosion and seems to follow Amy around. And it should only describe what we actually know.

Here's my rationale:

There's no need to capitalize "Cracks"--it's generally not capitalized in the subtitles, or in interviews with the Moff, or anywhere else other than this wiki.
There are lots of cracks. That's the big deal that everyone keeps telling the Doctor. Even if he's only seen one crack (and again, we don't know that's true), it's not the only one.
The explosion would probably deserve a separate article if we knew more (and probably will, after the finale), but it would be a pointless stub right now, so leave it here.
The time energy probably belongs with the explosion, until there's some unrelated mention of time energy in a future season/novel/etc., because it's unlikely they're going to tell us enough to justify _two_ additional articles. But if we do learn enough, of course we can split it off at that time.
Also, having a separate article for "time energy" or "time field" would break redirects--everyone who uses this wiki regularly now expects to be able to type in those terms and find the cracks. Having it redirect to a section of this page would be a perfect transition.
We don't actually know whether there's a specific single crack following Amy (or...) around, whether it's unique in opening to the explosion, etc. But there's still something that has to be said about the fact that the crack(s) in FaS and CB are the only ones the Doctor and Amy have seen since TEH, and they both lead to the explosion, and they're the only ones seen to erase things from time.
If we do learn enough about this special crack in the finale to justify a separate article, we'll probably learn a better name for it than "Amy's crack" (or "Amy's bedroom crack", which really isn't any better).

Any arguments? --Falcotron 09:37, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

In the discussion above you typed out the subtitles, in which both Angel Bob and the Doctor call it a Time Field, then you say it was never called a Time Field. It was and that's the name given to the cracks. Here's how the science works. There's the explosion which causes the "cracks" (a colloquial name given). All the cracks are wormholes. Some lead to places, others to the end of the universe where the "time energy" is. The time field is the area that the crack affects (like an electromagnetic field), and given that all three of these things, are on this page, the Time Field is the most appropriate as it is the scientific name used by the Doctor and by the Angels, both who knew the science of it. The only people to call them cracks are humans, and the Doctor when a human calls it that. I think that the name of the page is fine as it is right now. Instead of changing it right now, just leave it until the series finishes, it's only a few weeks, and on other wiki's I've learned that it's best to wait a few extra weeks rather than speculate and end up requiring changing a lot of stuff again. If you leave it, worst case scenario is we change it all. If you change it, and the worst case scenario happens, you'll have changed it all, then changed it back. Double the work. I'd just wait a while. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:00, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

while i agree itd make a heck of a lot of chaos if we change it, the proper thing is, it is a crack, not a time field. Like you said, the time field is the area the crack affects, which is i suppose basically the same thing, like the time field is the rupture in the wall if thats what you meant. Either way, it is definatly a crack in the universe. The Doctor only called it a time field ONCE, and in every other time, its been said as a crack, NOT a time field. Everyone changed it because he said it once to somebody different, aka Angel Bob. One time its been called a time field doesnt mean you change it until the final episode. I agree it shouldnt be changed now, it is a crack and not a time field because the field is like you said, the area in which the crack affects. Since the field eminated from the crack, its logical to assume that it is indeed called a crack, not a time field. Ooiue 15:16, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The Thirteenth Doctor, when I say it was never called a Time Field, yes, the crack was never called a time field. The field of time energy was called a time field. The two times that phrase is used, they're talking about two separate things--the time field, and the crack (or "rupture in time"). Those conversations would make no sense if they were the same thing.

Meanwhile, you insist that it's a "scientific" name, "like an electromagnetic field". If you want to get scientific, the time field is the field of time energy, just as an electromagnetic field is a field of electromagnetic energy. In particular, it's the quantity (or quantum operator) of that energy at each point in space.

The time energy is, as the Doctor says, "spilling out of that crack". The time field is the amount of that energy at each location. That's not what the crack is.

If there's EM energy spilling out of an magnet, that determines an EM field, but saying the field and the magnet are the same thing would be not just wrong, but completely ludicrous. People wouldn't even know what you were talking about--and, if they figured it out, they'd laugh at you.

Calling this article Time Field is like having an article on "Electromagnetic Field" that says, "The Electromagnetic Field (refrigerator magnet) is usually brightly coloured and molded into a cutesy shape and used to hold the kids' drawings to the refrigerator door."

As for all the chaos: It would require (a) moving this page, (b) repointing the 7 redirects, (c) adding a new redirect from Time Field to the section on time energy on this page. I could do that in under a minute.

Meanwhile, between all of the 7 names for this page, there are about 70 links to it, which should obviously all be fixed to go to the right name. But they don't right now. Again, those links are scattered around 7 different names. That should be fixed, but it hasn't been yet, so renaming the page won't make things any worse. And if we're going to fix it, I'd rather fix it to go to the right name than the wrong one. --Falcotron 02:40, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

If it were to be moved it'd likely be moved to 'Crack' in the singular and without the 'The'.

I am somewhat concerned about the 'probably' statements as we are trying to guess what all of these things mean without having seen the final outcome. If this page were to be moved and separate articles set up to deal with the various elements outlined I'd be worried about the amount of supposition that would go into each of those between now and the final episode where (hopefully many of the questions are answered). --Tangerineduel 15:18, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

The only "probably" statements are "the explosion would probably deserve a separate article if we knew more" (but we don't), and "the time energy probably belongs with the explosion", and (although I didn't use the word "probably") the question of whether there's one "Amy crack" or separate cracks in TEH/TBB/VotD/CB. My suggestion was that, since we don't know enough to justify two or more articles, they should remain sections of the same article for now.

The only question is, what should that article be? The most general thing is clearly the cracks. There are a bunch of them; some of them are connected to the explosion, some not; some leak time energy, some don't; some (or one) follow Amy around, some don't. Discussing the time energy in a "crack" article makes sense, because the only place we see it is coming out of some of (or one of) the cracks. Discussing the cracks in a "time field" article doesn't make sense.

And meanwhile, whatever we call the article, we definitely need to change it so that it no longer asserts that the time energy and the cracks are the same thing. --Falcotron 14:26, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

It's not Rory

There have been leaked pictures of rory at stonehenge wearing roman armour. for some reason everyone has been excited by this. Here are some thoughts:

Why does everyone like rory? he's such a useless character!
It probably isn't rory. My guess is it's his roman ancestor.

what do you think 90.202.74.73 14:17, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your bloody posts, and it IS Rory. I know from spoilers that he was brought back, somehow having to do with memories. He was "re-created," apparantly. Delton Menace 14:14, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, wow, they are really running out of ideas! 90.202.74.73 14:21, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it is something to do with Amy. She forgot about the Daleks and Cybermen and they return, and remembered the Angels and Clerics and they won't return, if she forgot about Rory, he may be brought back out of the Pandorica. Who7 14:27, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

the incidents with the Daleks and Cybermen were erased probably by the cracks or something. The new Daleks are returning and who knows what explanation there is for the Cybermen. They only reason she remembered the clerics and Angles was because she was a time traveller by then. Since it didnt directly affect her past, she wasnt affected, but with Rory...it did. We dont know enough about the cracks to make an assumption, but its fairly certain they are a gateway, like the one in TEH was. Rory will return in the last episode, and nothing you can do will change that! and stop critising his character, he is great character, anyone who dispises him doesnt deserve to be here. Ooiue 15:27, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Theory on the Origin

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think since the shrapnel was a piece of the tardis, and there was an explosion, and the tardis has some kind of impenetrable forcefield, that the explosion was located, and probably caused by, the tardis. Dreaddraco2 18:58, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

so you think the explosion is the TARDIS blowing up? i also think it is that as well. if that isnt the case you are stating, please elaborateOoiue 19:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The TARDIS's defenses can be taken down like in Journey's End. There is the possibility that the TARDIS was destroyed by an outside force. Do we know in what form the Daleks are supposed to show up? If they are those who are experts at fighting TARDIS (what's the plural?) then they could end up causing the destruction of the TARDIS. V00D00M0NKY 21:38, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

If it was the full title of the TARDIS, it would be TsARDsIS (Times and relative dimensions in space) IHBB 08:08, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

actually TARDIS is the true name: Time and Relative Dimension in Space. There isnt any s' on the end.

And yes, there have been pictures of the new Daleks in there. Besides, why would Moffat want to bring back the old ones with some perfectly good new ones?Ooiue 08:19, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't saying it will be the old ones but that I know those are experts at fighting TARDIS. The new ones certainly have the potential for also having that knowledge. My main point of that was that the explosion may not be the TARDIS blowing up but the TARDIS may blow up because of the explosion. It's "impenetrable" forcefield can and has been penetrated. V00D00M0NKY 10:11, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Two Types Of Crack?

This is an encyclopedia about Doctor Who, thus it should be about confirmed fact (or specualtion beginning with 'it is speculated that...') - so why does the article clearly state that there are two types of crack? Until it's confirmed, I vote for this being taken off the article. BlueDalek 09:46, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

It Has Been Confirmed in Vampires of Venice By Rossana : Through Some we saw Other Planets and Through the rest we saw Silence and the end of all things Liamhenney 09:58, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

No, that just means that the Vampires could see diferent things through different cracks - like through different 'real' holes in things, if they were different places, you would see different things. BlueDalek 10:08, June 2, 2010 (UTC) And Then Go Back to 11th Hour and there is a wormhole type of crack in Amelia's wall and then in Flesh and Stone you have the erasing crack! Liamhenney 10:30, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

erm...just a question...how can you see silence?Ooiue 10:03, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I Don't Know Why Don't you travel back in time and ask Rossana? LOL Liamhenney 10:06, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

This has been discussed on this very page and I think the current idea is to just wait for the end of the series before an overhaul on the page. No need to keep changing it over and over and over just because we can't decide on who's right. V00D00M0NKY 10:15, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

companions

I think that this is a cunning way to delete all of the companions that Moffat dosn't want back Darkraider09 12:59, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

???

If Rory doesn't exist, then the doctor and Amy wouldn't have needed to go to venice, so that would meen they couldn't stop the lobster... things. I'm confused. 89.242.65.254 13:20, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

All events up until Rory is taken still go!!! Why don't people still get that? User:Solar Dragon/Signature 13:52, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Can you elaberate on that? 92.27.177.192 14:15, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I said this somewhere else in more detail but basically all that stuff that happened still did. The only difference now that Rory never existed is the reason as to why it all happened. From the Doctor's point of view nothing was rewritten at all. For example, maybe instead of Rory bringing Amy to the school for admission it was the Doctor (but that's only from Amy's point of view not the Doctors). V00D00M0NKY 19:05, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

If Rory never existed then the Eleventh Doctor should not be alive because Rory intercepted the heat ray blast and therefore with no Rory = no interception, The Eleventh Doctor should be dead! Maverick707 20:42 June 2, 2010 (GMT)

That's not true. Once you step out of time you aren't affected by it in the same way. If events from the past are erased then it doesn't affect your present. The Thirteenth Doctor 19:47, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Look at it this way. If someone kills someone and he is killed, will the people ke killed be brought back to life? No. Same thing. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 19:53, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

think of it this way. He is the Doctor. He is a Time Lord for a reason. enough saidOoiue 21:05, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Silurian Crack...?

I fail to believe no-one has noticed, but the mouth shape on the Silurian's masks, could it possibly look like a crack to you?? I know it hasn't got the light spilling out of it like the other cracks, but it's the same shape....86.15.88.163 20:13, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

nah its just the stupid smile on the mask.Ooiue 21:06, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Venice crack is real

Was confirmed in DWA

This has been confirmed in Doctor Who Adventures #169. PB-Billy 19:28, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts! and it still looks like bogus to me. Persides, DWA isn't a very reliable source nowadays. The Captain Tornado 13:49, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I signed it PB-Billy 19:28, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

According to User:OGREPOP above, DWA says that the keyhole _may_ be a crack, which would hardly count as confirmation. Do you have an exact quote? --Falcotron 19:49, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also, your picture caption says DWM, but your text says DWA. Those are very different sources. Is that just a typo, or did DWM say something too? --Falcotron 19:50, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Edited. PB-Billy 08:55, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Here is my main objection: Every other "real" crack we've seen so far was accompanied by a very distinctive audio cue, a deep bass sound of dread. Really, every one of them. Even the subtitles say "RUMBLING". In the Venice sky scene, there is no such sound. Given that all the cracks have been placed completely deliberately, the distinct absence of any audio cue here is reason enough for me to discount this scene -- it's just a cloud.

The previous unsigned message was left by User:Hack59. Please sign your posts with 4 tildes.

PB-Billy, you still haven't answered the question. Given that you and OGREPOP say completely different things about what DWA says, can you give us the exact quote?

Hack59, I'll have to watch it again, but maybe you remember: did we get the same cue in TEH every time the crack was visible, or is it only when the crack is "opened" (or maybe even not at all)? --Falcotron 16:31, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Why is DWA not a reliable source when it is made by the BBC? Alpha111 09:44, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't a very reliable source because it is based around fan speculation. the captain tornado 11:05, june 5, 2010 (UTC)

Major edit

I just tried to go through and take out everything in the article that was speculative. For example:

We don't actually know that Rosanna's planet was consumed by a crack; all we know is that they feared the silence they could see in some of the cracks, they fled through one of the other cracks to the Earth, and the crack closed behind them.
We don't know that there's a time field in the first two cracks in the gallery. (In fact, it seems pretty likely that there isn't one.)
We don't know that it was 1580 on both sides of Rosanna's crack.
After my last rewrite, it sounded (despite my effort to avoid this) like we were asserting there was only one type of crack, which we really don't know for sure.

I think that, as it stands now, everything stated or implied in the article was stated directly on-screen.

Meanwhile, since the time field is a field of time energy, and chronons are the particles of time energy, I added a link, trying to write it in a non-committal way, in hopes that this will prevent someone from adding something more speculative. But the wording could probably use some help. --Falcotron 15:15, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

They look differant

I have noticed in the image gallery that TEH, VOTD and CB cracks are identical to eachover, while TBB and F&S cracks are also identical to eachover. Can these be identified as Erasers and Wormholes, and if so, which one is which? 90.202.74.73 17:27, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

hi heres a theory based on random speculation!!!! - and random rumors spread on the web

the cracks are holes in the universe of matter, into the realm of anti-matter. being created by Omega - to escape his prison. as well as punish the universe he says as having abandoned him.

i base this tenuous theory solely on the fact that omega has been rumoured to be the central villain of this series - and it seems like a plausable escape route for an insane, eternally imprisoned, nihilistic, all-powerfull (at least in the dimension of his creation) founder of time-lord society.

Yes. This is speculation. Please don't post it here. There is a message at the top of the page saying to keep all speculation and theories to the forum. This page is for discussion of changes to the article. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:42, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong image

Which genious put the AC Crack in the gallery? it isn't even a crack!!!!

The person who made that edit. You can easily see who did it by checking the history. Since you didn't sign your post that's how I found out that you are an anon-ip user with the ip 90.202.74.73.

On top of that... Why argue anymore... What is the point of everyone editing and re-editing the page over 50 times a week. Everyone should just leave it alone or maybe there should be some sort of vote to decide what will be considered a crack on the page. And maybe another vote as to what the page should be called. Does anyone else find this so ridiculous that it's not even worth arguing over anymore? I really don't care anymore what is or is not considered a crack on the page. V00D00M0NKY 10:07, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Removed it. Also, why is the image of the crack on the TARDIS screen changed? It was better before and has been replaced with a worse image. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 10:09, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind. Found the old image and replaced it. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 10:12, June 5, 2010 (UTC)