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Cybermen or Cybusmen in Blood of the Cybermen
I remeoved this text :
"Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who.Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who.Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who."
I removed this on the grounds the game has not yet been released, thus far we don't know if the Cybermen in the game are from this universe or are Pete's World cybermen, but that all pre-release images suggest they are modified Cybus design cybermen. I think it would be better to wait a few days until the game is released before making any such statements.
In addition, the original Cybermen have not appeared ON TV since Silver Nemesis, but they have appeared in other media, including the BBC broadcast 8th Dr audios, so the statement is rather less than clear.
Mr Pepperpot 16:15, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
- So, Blood of the Cybermen is out, and we still don't have any answers. In The Pandorica Opens we learn that the Cybus Cybermen somehow still got into our universe, and are now a sea-faring race. The game doesn't make it clear exactly which the Doctor is dealing with.--Samoth 16:14, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Space faring....... not see faring Fan555 17:45, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I propose a merge. In The Next Doctor, the walls between Mondas and Pete's Cybermen was blurred and Blood of the Cybermen and The Pabdorica Opens have certainly strengthened that becasue we don't know which version they are. I'm australian, so I havent played Blood yet, but from what Ive read, it isnt said that they're Mondas Cybermen. The fine line that used to be drawn between the two species has been cut up. This is why i think they should be merged. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 03:48, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
- It's just stupid to label them Mondasian Cybermen when they're unconfirmed...the logo is a potential indication but it is not an evidence...cybermats are definitely NOT evidence, since the Cybus Cybermen's technology advances significantly everytime we meet them...these cybermen should definitely be placed on both articles as unconfirmed if not merging the articles as Bigredrabbit said above...the Cybus Cybermen could very well have been the 'ancestors' of Mondasian Cybermen or any other wacky explanations...but listing unconfirmed things as facts is just plain stupid...203.168.176.42 16:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Why does this have a seperate article? I haven't played the game, but my understanding was that these are definetly either the original Cybermen, or the new parallel universe Cybermen (Pete's World), but they are definetly not yet another version of the Cybermen. Since we already definetly have a different page for them, we just don't know which page, we don't really need a seperate page. If there is any information on these Cybermen that is significant enough that it must be added to the other article, it can just be added to both articles, with a background note saying that these may be the other Cybermen.Icecreamdif 00:13, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
The cybermen from The Pandorica Opens, The Big Bang, Blood of the Cybermen, and A Good Man Goes To War are they cybusmen or origional ones?
The real-world reason for the use of the design is obviously to avoid confusion (unsure about the change in logo however). Blood of the Cybermen could not be used to introduce the Mondasian Cybermen back into the series; not everyone who watches the show will play the game and will therefore not know fully what is happening. I'm not so sure about concidering them the originals (and while I'm on this, the Cybermen in The Pandorica Opens are clearly Cybus, and I myself concider the Cybermen in A Good Man Goes to War Cybus kind for reasons stated in the Cybermen and Twelfth Cyber Legion talk pages). As for these Blood Cybermen, I think Cybus as little as I do Mondasian - although sometimes I think a mix of the two. However, there are odd times where I think the same as the Cybermen in A Good Man Goes to War. Not much in there, too much "I think" and personal thoughts but these Cybermen are quite confusing.TheCoud'veBeenKing 17:20, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
Overview page?
How about making the main Cyberman article an overview page about all kinds of cybermen, their differences and similarities, while having the current article as a more specific article at Cyberman (Mondas) or something like that? I'm not suggesting a full merge - the details would still be in separate articles. Ausir(talk) 21:54, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
Mark eight
Shouldn't the Cybermen The Doctor encountered in Pete's World be called mark eight? They were the eighth model that The Doctor encountered. 74.195.213.196 06:32, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
The Cybusmen had nothing to do with these Cybermen. They coincidentally have the same name, and a similar appearence, but they were developed completely seperately, by somebody who had no knowledge of the "real" Cybermen. Icecreamdif 03:39, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
The cybermen from The Pandorica Opens, The Big Bang, Blood of the Cybermen, and A Good Man Goes To War are they cybusmen or origional ones?
- The ones from A Good Man Goes to War have no Cybus logo and have quite a presence where they are, so I think they might be from this universe. I certainly hope so; the parallels have been around for too long. If we get a confirmation of that, then information about them should be included in this section. ProtoKun7 21:59, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
Cybermen or Cybus Cybermen in Series 6, A Good Man Goes to War
This question really needs to be answered. The Cybermen which appeared during the first two minutes of the episode, had no Cybus logo on their chest, and they had Cyber-ships in space, like our universes ones. Cybermen or Cybus Cybermen? Cortion 14:08, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
It's seems more likely they are Mondasian. TemporalSpleen 14:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
I would be inclined to say Mondasian, but we still have no proof of this. --Revan\Talk 14:26, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
I agree there is more evidence that they are Mondasian, but it hasn't been comfirmed, there ment to appear in a later story so lets wait till then and see if that tells us. General MGD 109
I'm actually more inclined to think Cybus Cybermen. Personally, I feel a bit uncomfortable concidering them the original Cybermen - the odds of them being essentially just the same as varients from another universe kind of bugs me. That's my personal thought out the way - now for evidence: as it seems likely that the Cybusmen have recently become a space-faring race (like in The Pandorica Opens) and that they have left their own universe and have now chosen to live in our universe, I think that may explain the lack of logo in A Good Man Goes To War - since they are living in our universe where there is no Cybus, that company name now means nothing to them and so the 'C' logo means nothing at all so they have done away with it. Furthermore, I don't think the show would introduce the original Cybermen back after all these years in a cameo and with so little changed. I'm quite looking forward to the original's return, and I'd be disappointed if it happened it that brief pre-title cameo, and if it hardly introduced anything new. So, I think they are Cybus Cybermen, but if it is not later confirmed, I'll just go on my speculation - as long as it keeps me happy :)TheCoud'veBeenKing 20:11, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
I don't really think the writers are going to address this issue, so its up to us to make a decision over where we're going to place these Cybermen. In my opinion, we should merge Cyberman (Pete's World), Cyberman (Blood of the Cybermen) and Cyberman (Good Man) into Cyberman. The Cybermen and Cybusmen are different in the way the CyberMondasians and CyberNomads are different. They're the same species, just different factions. Bigredrabbit 11:02, June 11, 2011 (UTC)
That would make sense, although I'm not 100% sure about merging all four pages but merging Pete's World, Blood, and Good Man Cybermen together would be a good idea - There's bound to be viewers who don't pay it as much heed as we do and just choose parallel Cybermen anyway. Despite the lack of explanation and continuity, all three of them are essentially the same thing. Three pages of them aren't too necessary (Blood and Good Man could possibly be the same space-faring Cybermen, just a different logo). If the Mondasian Cybermen are reintroduced to the show some day, we'll know that Blood and Good Man are not the Mondasians, thus making things easier around here.90.200.188.9 17:34, June 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Here's a mock-up of a merged Cybermen article (obviously to be expanded): User:Ausir/Cyberman. What do you think of the general idea, though? In this version, the current article would be moved to Cybermen (Mondas) and Cybermen (Pete's World) would also be preserved, but the main "Cyberman" article would encompass all major varieties, with less detail than the more specific articles, instead of being only about the Mondasian version. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 13:05, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
The Pandorica Opens, A Good Man Goes to War, and Blood of the Cybermen
If it is established that theses are the Mondasian Cyberman, then the ones in The Pandorica Opens (TV story) must also be, as the same cyberships where seen in The Alliances Fleet. Also it is said somewhere in this wiki that the producers where originally going to redesign or modify the cybermen in pandorica, however if we just imaging the C loge doesn't exist on them it all makes more sense. So The Pandorica Opens (TV story), A Good Man Goes to War, and Blood of the Cybermen are Mondasian cybermen not Cybus ones. --{{SUBST:User:Kingofall42/SigReal|{{SUBST:{Predated }}}}.
I completley disagree. Cortion 16:15, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah... completely disagree. "if we just imaging the C loge doesn't exist on them"... or another way to put it... if we go completely against canon? Nah. We don't do that. Not at all. Fact is... we don't know where they originated. And until we do, it's unconfirmed. --The Thirteenth Doctor 16:31, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I also disagree, the proposal is going with speculation when there is quite clearly half a season's worth of information yet to be broadcast. As with the Forum:Can we say River is the little girl? discussion it is best to wait and see what the information brings rather than to try and second guess things and speculate what was meant. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:25, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
- I have just found something that complicates the matter even further. The Mazes of Time features Cybus Cybermen, but during part of the story, the Doctor visits their cyber tombs on Telos. --Revan\Talk 15:03, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
Seeing at most of this "overview" page is just the contents of the in depth pages, I suggest that this page becomes a disambiguation page or is simply noting the types and their differences. It shouldn't have an infobox, history or any of that as it isn't referring to any set variant. Perhaps it should just have a heading for each type with a brief description and a link to the main page.----Skittles the hog--Talk 10:11, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
I agree, the history section should provide links to each variant of Cybermen pages. --Revan\Talk 10:19, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not so sure, given that it documents the Cybermen that are of unknown or merged origin as well. I think it should have a summary of history of all variants of Cybermen in general, even if not in as much details as it does now, and with links to the more specific histories. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 10:27, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
They do not have an intertwined history. Just an unclear one. See this sandbox for a basic outline of my idea. Improve it as you wish. This article is just patches of the other articles without any useful information, bar the section on differences.----Skittles the hog--Talk 10:30, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- I guess you're right, how about the current version? I only left the history of the "unified" Cybermen in the article. I think it's best to keep all of it here instead of splitting it off to separate articles for the VG ones, for the "Good Man" ones etc. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 10:37, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
I like it, yeah. I suppose it will be altered over time, but its a great start. Good work.----Skittles the hog--Talk 10:39, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think using an image of one version to represent an article on different species is against policy - e.g. we have an image of Time Lords at the top of Near-Human, even though it's an overview article on various similar species. I think having the latest (Twelfth Cyber Fleet) variant of Cybermen as the image at the top of the article is a good idea, just like the one at Silurian, despite there being vast differences between subspecies of Silurians. Or maybe someone could make an image that depicts all major variants, just like the one at The Doctor? And generally, I think it's a good idea to always have an image at the top of the article. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 10:49, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
Most articles on this wiki don't have images at the top of the page, and sometimes it just doesn't look right. I've added a pic with four variants on it. I just used one for the blood/good man Cybermen and the caption links further down the page.----Skittles the hog--Talk 11:27, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
The Unspecified Cybermen - At Some Point
Good work on the clean-up, but I'm sure we all know we're not finished here yet. We're going to have to do something about the Cybermen from Blood of the Cybermen and those from A Good Man Goes to War at some point. If I may make a suggestion for a later time, I shall start by pointing out that the Cybermen seen in the aforementioned stories are either Cybus or Mondasian - I'm sure we can all agree that they haven't come from a completely unrelated origin, and so to have three different types of Cybermen that are all more-or-less the exact same despite the logo. These Cybermen are either Cybus or Mondasian, we just don't know which but not a different branch.
So, if their origin is not picked up on again, such as the Cybermen in the Adventure Games are unlikely to be referenced in the show proper for example, we'll have to go by elimination of possibilities (IF it's not picked up on, it may be but not likely). If the Mondasian Cybermen are seen again in the show, then are there any objections to merging the Blood Cybermen with the Cybus Cybermen? We do know the Cybermen became a space-faring race (DW: The Pandorica Opens and VG: Return to Earth, despite it's reception, is still canon around here), and the Blood Cybermen are a space-faring race, so they'd fir just fine together. The same could also go for the Good Man Cybermen.
So, if the Blood and Good Man Cybermen are confirmed not to be Mondasian, then they can only be Cybus. So if we do see the Mondasians again, would anyone have any problems with merging Blood and Good Man with Cybus?90.200.188.111 15:04, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- They can be either Cybus, Mondasian or both - one possibility you haven't mentioned is them being a result of an alliance between Cybus and Mondasian versions. Anyway, we know that at least one of the episodes in the 2nd half of series 6 will feature Cybermen, so let's wait for whether it will explain anything. My feeling is that they are not going to be mentioning the origins of these Cybermen at all, though. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 15:19, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
This is just turning into speculation. We should just think of them as different altogether until the show dictates otherwise.----Skittles the hog--Talk 15:26, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, until confirmed, we should just note their similarities and differences from both previously seen Mondasian and Cybus versions. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 15:30, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
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- Yes, yes, I know this may be seen as travelling into the relms of speculation, but are the production team just going to introduce a new type of Cybermen out of nowhere? The show already has two, what does it need two more for? Not to mention that three of them are just about the exact same things, and yes there are things that look the same but are different, but three factions of Cybermen and to that degree? Really? No, realistically, there are only two, we just don't know which of two origins certain groups came from.
- Should the matter not be picked up on-screen yet the Mondasian Cybermen come back, it wont be speculation, it would be elimination of the possibilites.
- As for Cybermen born out of an alliance between Cybus and Mondasian, I was going to write that it somewhere but I think that's the most speculation view there is right now. That is something that will have to be confirmed by the show or we can't put it anywhere.
- So anyway, two types of Cybermen. Anyone want to argue there are more?90.200.188.111 15:42, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
Main thumbnail image
We don't need that image. It is unnecessary to have it up. This is my main point: This shows all the different types of Cybermen we seen on screen so far, but we don't have a picture showing all the different types of Daleks on screen so far, e.g. Time-War, Progenitor. So there, so in the mean time, I will be taking that image down until the matter is solved. Cortion 15:35, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
No you won't. This wiki is not for you to run free on. Please wait for discussion on the image. We show companions on the companion page don't we? I remember you contested that also. It doesn't show all the Cybermen, just some. Both I and User:Ausir decided that an image was needed for the top of the page and this was decided upon. Again, this is a case of you not listening to others. Please discuss changes when it is requested of you so as to be a productive member of this lovely wikia's society :) Thanks ----Skittles the hog--Talk 15:44, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
"Again, this is a case of you not listening to others"? What on earth are you talking about? I listen as much as you do. Now, about "Please discuss changes when it is requested of you so as to be a productive member of this lovely wikia's society" I understand. I want and would love to be a productive member of this lovely wikia's society. So you beat about the image being removed. So now that image will stay up there. But remember that is only a temporary image, if you could persuade me to make it pernament, and other editors agree, then it will be pernament. Understand? Happy with that? Cortion 15:57, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- I like the image and feel it should remain on the page, but I feel that you, Skittles, are being a bit. You said "wait for a discussion on the image" and that you and Ausir have discussed this, but is a discussion between two Users about how a page should look really a discussion, should you have not raised it here first so that more Users could have their say? I also agree with Cortion that we should have something like this for the Dalek page. And like I said, the image should stay. Mini-mitch\talk 16:06, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
All my points are valid. You (Cortion) removed this image based solely on your own opinion. It was Ausir that proposed the image and I created it. That shows that it was a joint decision. Same with the Eighth Doctor image. I consulted other users, you didn't. Now, about this temporary thing, you said it about the Eighth image as well. What are you talking about? Anyway, of course I'd be happy to listen to other users, that'd be great.----Skittles the hog--Talk 16:07, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Why do people like this image? What's so good about it? And also, I agree with Mini-mitch about you are being a bit. Cortion 16:54, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
How ironic. Yes, I only discussed it with one user but that's a lot better than not at all. I also said I was open to other opinions. I couldn't see any points for its removal raised here. Yet again, it was unfounded preference. I don't understand Mini-mitch's point. Should I make a discussion whenever I want to add an image?----Skittles the hog--Talk 17:03, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Not with any image. I just thought after the discussion with the other Users, you'd post the idea here to see what other Users think. The image is good because it gives an all round idea of what the Cybermen from the different stories look like, I know not every appearance is on there, but it what the main different Cybermen look like and show how the Cybermen have changes over the year in television and comic/novels. If a User who had no idea what Cybermen look liked and with Users who do, they come onto this page a see the image and good "The the original and the Cybermen from the New series, along with two of the most commonly featured one", that, to me, is why it's a good image. Mini-mitch\talk 17:12, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I'll bear it in mind.----Skittles the hog--Talk 17:14, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that having four different type of Cybermen in the main image is necessary. The main image should just be one image that represents the Cybermen as a whole, preferably the most recent image available which would be A Good Man Goes to War, and then the other images would be throughout the body of the article. If we must keep the image with multiple Cybermen, however, I would reccomend that one of them be of the original Cybermen look, from before Invasion. The Cybusmen and the Cybermen from A Good Man Goes to War may or may not be the same, but they look almost identical, so we don't really need both. I think it would make more sense to have one from before Invasion one of the design that was used from Invasion onwards in the Classic series, one from the new series, and one from the comic.Icecreamdif 02:43, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you! Someone who agrees with me! Cortion 06:44, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
One image wouldn't be enough to accurately portray the Cybermen. As for condensing the Good Man and Pete's World Cybermen, you can't really do that. In appearance they aren't really that different, but in origin they are. I already just used one image for the Artic and Good Man Cybermen. I can't really see the advantage of using a pre-Invasion Cyberman. Why do you want such a change? ----Skittles the hog--Talk 08:58, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
By the logic of using multiple pictures in the infobox of things that look different, we should have 2 pictures of Amy in the infobox, several pictures of the Brigadier in the infobox, a few pictures of the TARDIS in the infobox, etc. We don't know the origin of the Good Man Cyberman, but the infobox really only shows the appearance of the Cyberman anyway. Obviously, they would be mentioned, and an image of them would be featured, in the body of the article, but it doesn't really add anything to the infobox. They are presumably a version that we have seen before anyway. It is unlikely that there is yet another species who coincidentally looks exactly like the Cybermen, so they are probably either the Mondasian or Cybus Cybermen. We just don't know which ones yet. I think the pre-Invasion ones should be there, because the Cybermen actually looked significantly different before that, and it would show what they initially loooked like. It would also illustrate the Cyberman's ability to upgrade their appearances over time.Icecreamdif 12:52, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
- How can you compare Amy to the Cybermen? Amy is one person, so it does not matter what her infobox picture is, aslong as it shows her. As for the Cybrmen, this page is not for a particular group of Cybermen, just like the Companion page is not for a particular companion. The image, needs to stay at the top of the page because it gives an overall view of what the different Cybermen look like. There is no way that it should show only on version of the Cybermen, as that can go on thier own page. We are creating this page about the Cybermen, as in all the Cybermen, so the infobox picture should show the main types of Cybermen encounter or the most important changes in Cybermen. If you want to see an image about on particular Cyberman, as you, Icecreamdif, seem to want, Users will be able to get onto the page of the particualr Cyberman they want to see. Mini-mitch\talk 13:37, June 16, 2011 (UTC)