Howling:Tombstone and "Amelia's Last Farewell": Difference between revisions

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Saghan

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 I think everything else has basically been said, but i doubt that we will see the Ponds back for the 50th anniversary, if only because it would be too soon after they've left. [[User:Imamadmad|Imamadmad]] [[User talk:Imamadmad|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:16, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
+To start, the point made above about not knowing who "Amelia's Last Farewell" was being written to is a completely fair argument, and I had not even considered that. So thank you for bringing that to my attention. But I still don't quite agree with Amy's name not already being on the tombstone. Even if she could have written her "last farewell" to someone else, she would STILL have to have been sent to the past in order to write the book. Since I am convinced it was Amy typing from the very beginning of the episode, she would have had to have ALWAYS (in a "fixed point" kind of manner) "already" have made the decision she made in the end. Even River says she has to '''send''' the book to Amy to get it published, meaning that she, like the Doctor, apparently can't go back to that time era even with the Vortex Manipulator. (Which I'm still going back and forth about believing that's actually how she got to 1938 in the first place. Sure that's what she told Rory, but she is known to be a habitual liar. If she wanted the Doctor to show up, she could have just as easily used her Vortex Manipulator to just go pick up him and Amy, as well as using it to get out of the Angel's grip without breaking her own wrist. Or even simply teleporting the entire TARDIS crew out of there when Rory decided to try to run rather than accept his fate. I'm starting to believe her VM no longer works.) Also, someone mentioned that it was still probably River typing and not Amy, and that it just wasn't Alex Kingston's hands. I could have almost agreed there (since it seems River also had red nails for the entire episode) except for the ring. Whoever is using the typewriter clearly has a wedding/engagement ring on their left hand, both in the beginning and the end. Earlier in the episode when River is explaining that Rory was moved in space, not time, we clearly see her holding the book and the device with her left hand, and it's also clear that she's wearing no such ring, and the Doctor (officially her husband now) certainly never gave her one. I doubt they would have put one on the hands typing if it was supposed River. Plus, we just recently learned that after quitting as a model, Amy strangely decided to become a writer. So she certainly now has the necessary experience to have written the book.
+Also, having obsessively now re-watched the episode with gratuitous use of pause and rewind, I still have some issues.
+Firstly: I (especially in reference to Doctor Who) have always adhered to the argument that "If you don't see it happen on screen, it's not confirmed." That being said, we never actually see the Liberty Angel do anything to Detective Garner. We never see the Liberty Angel do much of anything really. It also still seems like the Liberty Angel (along with a few of the others) doesn't behave like the Angels we've seen in the past. When Rory steps on to the ledge, it's clear that there are plenty of cars driving around, so I simply refuse to believe it could have walked there without being seen. (Someone argued above that even without the TARDIS crew looking at it, someone on the street likely was, but even that would mean there would have been no possible way for it to walk that far. Rory looks at the Statue of Liberty before going inside Winter Quay, and it's quite far off, and its path to WQ would have been wide open- giving the people of the city more than enough time to observe it.)  Also, the scenes of both Rory and S. Garner making it to the roof are almost identical, and in BOTH cases, they paused before ever turning around to look at it. Giving the Liberty Angel plenty of time to make its move. Yet it doesn't. Plus, when Amy steps onto the ledge, she and Rory were both far too busy looking at each other, and the Doctor and River had not even made it to the roof yet. Even when the Doctor and River DO make it to the roof, the shot shows them coming up the ladder from an angle in which the Liberty Angel would have been behind them, so they weren't looking at it. (And Rory and Amy were still too busy looking at each other.) Someone above also said "there may have been a few seconds of gaps, but that it's not like she was unobserved those whole time". The problem being that a few seconds is all it takes. Even blinking takes a fraction of a second, and that's always been plenty of time for them move or attack. I don't mind Moffat including something in an episode and then not using it, as it's happened plenty of times. But something as big and specific as the Statue of Liberty being an Angel? That's a bit too fishy to me. (Though again, ALL of this is just speculation, and while I'll be disappointed if nothing is ever explained, that doesn't mean I won't simply get over it and move on. It wouldn't be the first time.)
+[Just as a side note to the Angel seemingly doing nothing but watching these events happen rather being involved- doesn't that seem very reminiscent of the Silent who came to Lake Silencio just to watch and confirm the Doctor's death?]
+Next: The Angel in the graveyard now bothers me as well. The whole "it's a survivor" theory of the Doctor's is a bit thin. Really? It survived a paradox? And then what- waited in the graveyard until present day to get its revenge? Again, a thin explanation. I'd also like to point out that during that scene, there were moments where the Angel was most definitely either being looked at while it did something, or not doing anything when it WASN'T being looked at. Even when it blinks Rory (a term I much prefer over "zap", lol) We can easily see that Amy would have been able to see it. It's not directly behind Rory from her point of view, it's off to the side of him. Then after River leans down to kiss Amy's hand, she stops looking at the Angel, and the Doctor stopped looking at it long before that. Leaving Amy as the only one watching. Unfortunately, she blinks SEVERAL times. I'd normally chalk this up as just having been overlooked in filming if not for the fact that even as far back as 'Blink', all of the shots of someone staring at an Angel NEVER had any such mistake. This just furthers my theory of the Angels not acting in a "normal" manner. As to why they're acting strangely, I can't yet say. It just seems like there is a point to it that we don't understand. (Okay, technically I DO have have theories on why they're acting this way, but none of them are based on enough facts to mention quite yet.)
+My last new issue with the episode has me looking forward to reading the 'The Angel's Kiss' book that they'll be selling out here in the real world. Did anyone else think (and I may just be wrong here) that the chapter names we see in the book seemed either to be slightly out of order, or even that we're currently missing the story of what happened in some of those chapters? Like I said, I may just be wrong here. (Though I do plan to watch it yet again and focus on this point.)
+[Also, in case anyone needs a reference, the chapters and their order are as follows: 1. The Dying Detective; 2. The Angels Take Manhattan; 3. Missing in New York; 4. Taking the Case; 5. Night in the Statue Park; 6. Gargoyle; 7. The Skinny Guy; 8. Julius Grayle; 9. Calling the Doctor; 10. The Roman in the Cellar; 11. Death at Winter Quay; 12. Amelia's Last Farewell]
+Now, I can already see some of these being correct, but what are chapters 5 and 6, exactly?
+I'm sure I'll be back with more questions or comments, and I'd like to take a second to apologize for being so long-winded with my posts thus far. The reason for that however is that of all of the '''MANY''' places I look online for my Doctor Who-related information, this is not only the most generally informative one (in my personal opinion) but also the only one with enough well-informed and well-spoken users on it to convince me to actually create an account for. You also all tend to be the least rude of the people who normally post on similar sites, and I greatly thank you for it. Don't blink, always bring a banana to a party, and vote Saxon. [[User:Saghan|Saghan]] [[User talk:Saghan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:57, October 1, 2012 (UTC)