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Calling this page Give-a-Show Projector (Iris Wildthyme and the Unholy Ghost) surely would make it harder to find on the wiki?
I named the page in the same style as Doctor Who (N-Space), as the "N-Space", in my opinion, is a good descriptive term for out of universe elements that exist within the DWU.
And having "(Iris Wildthyme and the Unholy Ghost)" makes it seem like it's more exclusive to the story, and if another DWU story has a Give-a-Show Projector, then having "(N-Space)" would be a better dab term, wouldn't it? Epsilon the Eternal ☎ 19:02, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- The dab term by first appearance is a standard of the Wiki. Doctor Who (N-Space) is a very specificia exception enshrined by an admin decision, as a way to deal with the fact that the first story to mention the in-universe Doctor Who actually had a parenthetical already, which would have made it extremely unsightly as a dab term.
- I wouldn't be against a policy of dabbing "out-of-universe elements that exist in the DWU" as "(N-Space)", but there is not yet such a policy, and in fact it contradicts the current T:DAB. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 20:01, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- Ah. Well that's annoying. I guess a rename to Give-a-Show Projector (Iris Wildthyme and the Unholy Ghost) it is then. :(
- Epsilon the Eternal ☎ 20:19, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- I mean, it's also debatable which story is the proper debut for Doctor Who in the DWU, as Remembrance of the Daleks is a strong contender but isn't explicit. This was an unusual application of T:DAB OTHER for one very specific exception to normal dabbing conventions. By convention, in-universe things are disambiguated by the story in which they first appeared, as gone into above. This has included major characters; it's not a statement that they can only be found in the story mentioned. Also, searching (and linking) is just as easy either way, because by the time you get to the opening bracket, this page would be suggested.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:25, July 7, 2020 (UTC)- All that being said, isn't the official rule that the in-universe thing takes precedence? Obviously that's not universal (Tom Baker isn't about Tom Baker (TV Action!)), but in this case, shouldn't the Iris Wildthyme item get the Give-a-Show Projector url, while the real-life merchandise item is dabbed as "(merchandise item)" or something? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 20:30, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- Didn't think of that. Should I redo the Speedy rename template?
- Epsilon the Eternal ☎ 20:32, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- You should change it to simply a Rename template, I'd say. We have something to discuss here — it's not a no-brainer. So Speedy rename doesn't really match the situation. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 20:37, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- It depends how "major" the real world version is, like Tom Baker as you say. There's also another angle, that Tom Baker and the Give-a-Show Projector in the DWU are directly referencing the real-world Doctor Who production version, as opposed to just happening to share a name. But yes, the rule is in-universe takes precedence (with some exceptions). That's something to discuss, so this is not eligible for speedy rename.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:50, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
- It depends how "major" the real world version is, like Tom Baker as you say. There's also another angle, that Tom Baker and the Give-a-Show Projector in the DWU are directly referencing the real-world Doctor Who production version, as opposed to just happening to share a name. But yes, the rule is in-universe takes precedence (with some exceptions). That's something to discuss, so this is not eligible for speedy rename.
- All that being said, isn't the official rule that the in-universe thing takes precedence? Obviously that's not universal (Tom Baker isn't about Tom Baker (TV Action!)), but in this case, shouldn't the Iris Wildthyme item get the Give-a-Show Projector url, while the real-life merchandise item is dabbed as "(merchandise item)" or something? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 20:30, July 7, 2020 (UTC)
Why not just rename it to Give-a-show Projector (device)? Danochy ☎ 08:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
- That works. 16:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- Er, it does, but you shouldn't have moved it yourself. It's one thing for users to take it upon themselves to perform renames in general, but ones that were the topic of a talk page discussion do require official consensus on the discussion before a move is performed. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 17:00, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- Oh sorry, I just though after two years of this talk page stagnating, "(device)" seemed an uncontroversial dab term. I've recently been trying to thin out Category:Articles that need renaming considering there was around eight hundred pages in there. 17:09, 27 September 2022 (UTC)