Talk:K9 Mark I

Unacceptable speculation

I removed the speculation that "K-9 might have escaped" when Gallifrey returned in The End of Time. That's great except that happened 40 YEARS before the events of Regeneration... plus the whole concept of the episode and the redesign of K-9 is to establish that he has regenerated, just like the Doctor. You don't go and speculate that the First Doctor might have escaped rather than changing into the second! 68.146.81.123 05:29, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Time Lord?

According to Time Lord#Non-Gallifreyan Time Lords, "On another occasion, Omegon referred to K9 as a fellow Time Lord. (PROSE: K9 and the Time Trap)" (For reference, the Omegon page clarifies that "Omegon" here means "Omega".) Shouldn't a note of this be made on this page also? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:19, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

Before making any changes, please, provide the quote from the source material. What was the exact phrase by which Omegon "referred" to K9 thusly? Amorkuz ☎ 22:22, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, but I believe the post at Time Lord and therefore here is a misreading of the original post at K9 and the Time Trap (novel), which states:

• "Omegon tells K9 that he has met his master, that he was once a Time Lord and that he engineered the system by which the Time Lords travel in time. These hints point to Omegon being an alias of Omega."

It sounds like Omegon is talking about himself all three times, since they are supposedly clues that he is really Omega. The confusing use of pronouns here led someone to think that K9 was once a Time Lord, but like I said, that is most likely a misreading. Shambala108 ☎ 22:28, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

One of the relevant quotes, I have found, is "Listen, hound… I too was once a Time Lord."

Shambala's interpretation that the "too" could be comparing Omegon to K9's master rather than to K9 himself is plausible, I suppose. I don't think it's quite clear-cut, however, as K9's master hasn't yet come up in their conversation at this point. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:33, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

I had exactly the same feeling as Shambala108. Just wanted to give a benefit of a doubt. The quote confirmed our suspicions. You really think it is plausible to interpret the quote with "too" as a claim that the hound is also a Time Lord? As for his master, wasn't K9 sent by Time Lords? Omegon does not have to refer to any particular Time Lord by this "too". Unless there are other quotes to this effect, this looks to be a serious misreading of the text. Amorkuz ☎ 22:45, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

Honestly, the idea of K9 having become a Time Lord during his stay on Gallifrey doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, within the framework where all it takes is to graduate from the Academy. And it would explain where he got the ability to regenerate (cf. regeneration unit).

It could be that I, and whoever originally wrote the note at Non-Gallifreyan Time Lords, are misreading what Time Trap means to say. I'll admit that your interpretation is looking more plausible now. But I don't think it's that "serious" a misreading of the text. And no matter how one slices it, Omegon's line is very curiously worded: it's surely not common practice to say "too" without having established just who one is comparing oneself to?

I do agree that this is to ambiguous to use in the infobox, but I think the note at Non-Gallifreyan Time Lords should stay, with some rewording to state that Omegon's words could be taken both ways. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:53, June 27, 2019 (UTC)

Ach. I believe it was me who put that line there. I've had endless debates about that aspect of The Time Trap on other forums, picking over the story line-by-line, and I think it's one of those things where both readings of the text are equally valid and we'll never be able to decide one way or the other based on the story alone. On the one hand, sure, it'd certainly be more consistent with the rest of the universe if Omega was talking about K9's master rather than K9; on the other hand, K9's master was only mentioned multiple pages (and lines of dialogue) before the "too", so that link is very uncertain, and also just a few pages before Bob Baker explicitly included several other non-Gallifreyan Time Lords (not to mention how K9 regenerates in K9). Considering that infoboxes are explicitly reserved for information that is non-controversially accurate, I definitely think it should not be included in the infobox or receive more than a tangential mention on K9 and Time Lord#Non-Gallifreyan Time Lords. But I do think it deserves those tangential mentions. – N8 ☎ 00:47, June 28, 2019 (UTC)

No, I don't think it should be on any in universe pages or as categories. I suppose you could put it behind the scenes, but I feel like it's way too much speculation at this point: I mean, the only hint we have that K9 was a Time Lord comes from a potentially misunderstood scene of dialogue. That's not enough. Shambala108 ☎ 02:11, June 28, 2019 (UTC)

You're probably right. I do think the mention on Behind the scenes is very much warranted, but more would probably be contentious. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 10:05, June 28, 2019 (UTC)