Howling:Adelaide crack in time
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
How come Adelaide Brooke didn't forget the Dalek invasion of Earth 2008, but Amy did. She didn't travel through time until after Mars, and it wasn't in her timeline. Could someone explain, though I think its just thats RTD or SM have not done too well with the laws of time. Probably SM coiz RTD had no IDEA ABOUT MOFFAT'S PLANS. Caged1 talk to me 22:05, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
The cracks happened later. I know that doesn't make much sense, but look at itfrom the Doctor's timeline. Boblipton talk to me 22:17, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, the following response could potentially get so complicated that I probably won't even know what I'm talking about by the end of it. Imagine that there are two timelines. One is the simple day to day timeline with "important" points in it now and again. The other is sort of a timeline that completely covers the whole of the other. This is a timeline that the Doctor, Time Agents, and the Time Field that forms the cracks use. If something, like the cracks, happens in the Doctor's timeline, it completely alters the others. So basically while Adelaide was a lot further ahead in OUR timeline, in the Doctor's he had already done everything there and the time field affected HIS timeline shortly afterwards with the whole cracks thing. If this makes no sense, and it probably doesn't, then someone else please put it in simpler terms. 94.72.209.209talk to me 22:25, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
The idea of a "meta-time" has been put forward in at least one other topic (probably archived, by now) and something of the kind does seem to be the only way to make sense of the thing. It can't be the same as the Doctor's personal timeline because that can and occasionally does loop back on itself (in The Impossible Astronaut, for example). It's not even the same as the running sequence of the show, because that can include flashbacks, but it's closer to that than to anything else. Quite a lot has already been said about this idea and I don't want to repeat it here. To find the earlier discussions, try searching the archives for the term "meta-time" (I know it's been used in the discussions). --89.240.240.49talk to me 00:34, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
this is the original thread which i have also linked to in another un-archived post http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Howling:How_does_everyone_know_the_Time_Lords_are_gone%3F&t=20111107194042 . to put it simply, the reason adelaid's memory haddn't been affected is the same reasont that the time war doesn't exist in any part of space-time anymore. Imamadmad talk to me 02:13, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
Another Idea. Could it mean it has more to do with the events of Stolen Earth/Journey's End than the events of Waters of Mars? If you're lost I mean is it related to the fact that the memory of the event lasts longer than the event itself. Because Stolen/Journey happens before Cyberking and Adelaide remembers! Sorry if you're confused. I'm a bit! Caged1 talk to me 19:13, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
Caged1: I'm not clear what it is you're trying to say. Would you clarify it, please. --89.241.72.64talk to me 19:17, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
I think caged1 is saying that Adelaide remembers the invasion because it had a big impact on her life. If not then please clarify. 94.72.209.160talk to me 20:49, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
Pretty Much. I also meant that the event may of been erased, but coz of the big impact she remembers [Unsigned but presumed to be Caged1 09:25, January 1, 2012 (UTC)]
From the way we saw erasures working in Series 5, it seems more likely to me that Adelaide would retain the determination to go into space, etc, but not be able to say why she felt that way. --78.146.182.118talk to me 11:51, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
If around the time Amy forgot the invasion the Doctor went back and met Adelaide before her suicide, he would find she had forgotten the invasion. But as the previous responder said, she wpuld still retain a determination to go into space. 178.78.81.210talk to me 13:21, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
Also the fact it had a big impact on her life would make it a lot more likely she would forget the invasion. This is why Amy remembered the clerics but forgot Rory. 178.78.81.210talk to me 13:23, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
Good point. And, in the case of Amy forgetting Rory, we saw that she did retain the feelings -- she was sad and didn't know why. (Later, at her wedding, she was in a similar situation over the Doctor.) That supports the notion that Adelaide would retain her ambition to go into space but not know where the ambition had come from. --89.241.68.183talk to me 14:27, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
Do we even know if the invasion was ever restored? So far as I know the Daleks were using a rift in the Medusa Cascade as aprt of their plans. RTD has since confirmed that the cracks closed the rift in Cardiff, and even after the reboot it was still closed. Could the same have happened to the Medusa Cascade rift, causing the invasion to still be forgotten? Of course there's always the chance the Daleks never knew the rift was closed after the reboot, and they still stole 20something planets despite the fact the reality bomb wouldn't work due to the closed rift, because they didn't know. 87.102.117.106talk to me 17:28, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
The point about the Medusa Cascade rift is a good one. It has occurred to quite a few people (and been mentioned in other topics in the Howling). We don't know if it closed, too, but it's possible and might tie in with the invasion not having happened in the "rebooted" universe. As I say, we don't actually know. --78.146.183.1talk to me 22:30, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
