Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Let's Kill Hitler

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This page is for discussing the ways in which Let's Kill Hitler doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:

* This is point one.
::This is a counter-argument to point one.
:::This is a counter-argument to the counter-argument above
* This is point two.
::Explanation of point two.
::Further discussion and query of point two.

... and so on. 

• Right before The Doctor dies from the poison, he tells Melody/River to "Find River Song, and tell her something from me." Then he whispers something to River, who responds with "Well, I'm sure she knows." Did he tell her his real name? He might have realized he had to have told her his name at some point since she repeats it back to him in Forest of the Dead. In that episode, he said, "There's only one reason why I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could." So did he believe that since he was dying, this is the last chance to tell her? (Otherwise this would screw up the timeline since she would never know his name.) Or could it be something else he whispered?

The slightly embarrassed "I'm sure she knows" strongly hints that what was said was a declaration of love, or something else of similar emotional import.

• In "Day of the Moon", River regenerates. The year is 1969/70 and she is about 8 years old. In "Let's Kill Hitler", she is a childhood friend of Amy and Rory. Year is now 1990 (Approx) and she is the same age. If 20 years have passed, why didn't she age? I assume she wasn't doing and space / time travel.

I'm sure if she can regenerate like a Time Lord, she'll age like one... Remember, they don't age as quick as humans

• Why would Adolf Hitler, head of an organisation that belive all things other than their own is inferior, carry a British Wembly revolver, rather than a standard German Lugar?

Maybe he decided to keep a British gun as an antique.

This is not ahistorical, Hitler in real life had a Smith and Wesson revolver (which is the gun actually seen in the episode, not a Webley). Why he decided on the non-regulation firearm is anyone's guess, however. Probably personal preference.

• Being shot repeatedly by bullets has no apparant effect on the robot, but later, it is knocked over, by simply being punched in the head? Surely at the least the bullets would have knocked to the ground?

Though slightly more reaction to the bullet might have been expected, the difference in effect would be like that between a barn getting a cannonball shot through its wall and having a hurricaine blow it over. Bullets are most effective on beings with nervous systems and squishy, irreplacable organs.

The bullets, or at least some of them, missed and hit Melody. Maybe one or two hit the robot, or maybe none hit and the reaction was a pre-programmed "shock" reaction.

Bullets don't hit with the kind of force people think they do. They do massive damage to a fairly small area, but don't generally knock people down by sheer force - studies show that people fall down when shot, for the most part, because they think they should, not because of anything to do with the physics of the situation.

• For someone who is smart enough, to quickly disable every weapon in the room, and out think River several times, it seems abit odd that the doctor did not think, that her lipstick would be a bit dodgy, especially since this plot device has been used for over sixty years, and he already knows that River uses dodgy lipstick.

He probably was too busy at the time and didn't notice.

• Would they really build robots who don't recognise their masters?

They were designed to kill unauthorised people. This would stop people from entering areas they weren't allowed it. Or, for killing people who have been abducted.

Visual recognition isn't good enough. The Teselecta itself is proof they're familiar with technology that allows one to imitate the appearance of another.

• It looks like River has now become 'good' after realising she is important to the doctor. so when exactly does she kill the doctor, or is it not river who kills him?

Just because, you can over come brainwashing, it doesn't mean its gone, her desires to kill him, may resurface at a later date.

Especially since it's pretty clear that she's at least a little crazy, and the Silence are still out there to manipulate her whenever she's separated from him, and even before all this we saw how inconsistent she could be.

She may have killed him at some point in her past.

Given that the "Doctor's death" is a Fixed point in time (pardon, suddenly I don't remember who said that), doesn't that definition mean that if River doesn't kill him then someone else will (at that exact time)? In any event, what we saw was a slow moving Astronaut: not very much like River (but perhaps she was having a hard time moving, or was a younger earlier regeneration of herself, or someone else that everyone assumes was River) and that River shot at herself DW: The Impossible Astronaut (What did she say then, "It figures?"... She figured that she'd really have no control over the events after all she's done to stop them?).

That's a lot of separate points in one paragraph, but just taking the last one: If she'd done everything she could to stop the events, and still ended up killing the Doctor, then yes, that would probably finally convince her that she had no control over the events, which would explain the "it figures" line.

After the events of "Let's Kill Hitler" River worked as an archeologist, The Silence came to kidnap her and put her in the astronaut suit, where she can't control her body, only her voice, that's why she "kills" the doctor later

• The same 2011 time zone as the Miracle was featured briefly in this episode (Torchwood: Miracle Day). This means that Amy and Rory were in Leadworth during their summer vacation from the TARDIS while the Miracle was happening, meaning that part of the episode was in sync with Miracle Day. It is highly likely that from the perspective of the Doctor Who universe, The Doctor was informed about such events by Amy and Rory and The Doctor most likely reassured them that the Miracle would not be permanent, otherwise it would be inevitable that he would have intervened. However from the real world perspective this is just a continuity error, and the outcome of the Miracle remains unknown.

Not all of 2011 is necessarily affected by the Miracle. Captain Jack probably stopped it a while before the Doctor, and with Melody being kidnapped and the Silence out to get him, he probably didn't bother about the Miracle, knowing that Jack was sorting it out, he had a hand in it after all. For all we know, Amy and Rory could have had a discussion about Miracle Day with the Doctor off-screen.

Unless we actually know the dates, we don't know that they overlapped. As far as I know, all that's been said is that Miracle Day itself was "early in the year", and it's hard to say how many days have passed in the episodes so far. Amy and Rory could have completely missed the Miracle (either too early or too late), or showed up at the tail end of it (or for the whole thing) such that it was resolved by the time the Doctor showed up again, and either way, there's no continuity error.

Well TW: Rendition takes place on 22 March, while the Doctor's death in DW: The Impossible Astronaut is just one month later on 22 April, which is probably the midpoint of Torchwood Series 4. So really the discontinuity started with The Impossible Astronaut.

• Why didn't the Doctor simply travel to 'the best hospital in the universe' to get cured? He was well enough to stand up, change some clothes, and transport the TARDIS.

It is started there is no cure, and the TARDIS has knowledge of almost everything, then it is clear that a cure is never invented.

Time Lords can delay death pretty effectively (see the 10th Doctor in The End of Time), so he probably could have gotten to the hospital. But obviously he knew that they couldn't cure him. (Even if the TARDIS doesn't actually know _everything_, it probably _does_ know everything about the capabilities of a hospital that it knows well.)

• How does Rory know the Sonic Screwdriver has a psychic interface and all Amy needs to do is "point and think" when inside the robot? The Doctor told him all he had to do is "point and press" (The Big Bang), and he said the TARDIS could home in on it when giving it to them (this episode), so how would Rory know the screwdriver has that feature?

We don't know what else the Doctor has told him about it off-screen in all their time together—or, for that matter, whether he's experimented with it himself.

At one point in the EDA novels, Fitz is fiddling with the settings and can't figure it out, and Anji impatiently grabs it and it immediately does what they need. If a similar thing happened for Rory as for Anji, it's not at all out of character that he would have realize that it's got some kind of psychic interface. (Actually, Fitz figured that out too, but assumed that it only worked for the Doctor.)

• The Teselecta put's Zimmerman's real glasses on then miniaturizes him and pulls him in through the iris opening through those same glasses. Why would people have to come in through the real iris hole in the machine, if the beam was capable of transporting them through things like glasses. I expect this was an oversight.

If the beam is (at least partly) electromagnetic, it would make sense that, just like light, it can go through some materials (like clear glasses) but not others (like a black pupil).

• If the whole point of the poison is that the Doctor couldn't regenerate out of it, how did River giving the Doctor her remaining regenerations solve anything?

She didn't give him her remaining regenerations, she used the energy that would have been used to regenerate her across her lives repair him now.

The TARDIS voice interface told him "regeneration disabled." It's possible that the poison only disables his regeneration mechanism, so he can't heal himself, but River can still use her energy to regenerate him, as she is not poisoned.

Also, regeneration isn't a yes or no thing; we've seen cases where someone is just barely able to regenerate and there's a serious risk of it not working (the 5th and 8th Doctors, for example). Having the energy of multiple regenerations poured into you by someone in the state of supernatural health that Time Lords have in the first few hours after a successful regeneration is bound to make a difference.

• How did the TARDIS fit inside the Teselecta?

When it materialised, the external shell (i.e., the 'police box') was miniaturised by the compression field, just like everything else. The same thing happened to it (albeit accidentally) in Carnival of Monsters.

• When the Teselecta finds River, they decide to "give her hell", but aren't they supposed to do this to people at the end of their timelines like what they were planning with Hitler? Wouldn't it be more logical to do it shortly before River met the Tenth Doctor in DW: Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead?

The reason they punish people at the end of their timelines is to avoid changing history. In this case, history was being dramatically changed right in front of their eyes, by their target, so it would actually make sense to take her out then to prevent her doing more damage.

• Why would the Teselecta have ever had any reason to appear as Rasputin? Who would they need to punish where that would be useful? Even if they were after Tsar Nicholas II near July 1918, disguising themselves as Rasputin would have been counterproductive (since he was 18 months dead, and would have been near the top of the Bolsheviks' public enemy list if he weren't dead).

Maybe they went to a costume party? Maybe the person they were trying to 'give hell to' was at a costume party, and they infiltrated it? Think outside the box.

Alternatively, it could be someone that we don't think of as a war criminal, or who actually wasn't in "our timeline". Or for that matter, it could have been a different Rasputin.

• If River can use her regenerative energy to hold back a Nazi firing squad, then why, when the Doctor regenerates in The Impossible Astronaut, doesn't he use his energy to stop the astronaut from killing him?

River had already finished regenerating, whereas the Doctor "didn't make it to the next" body yet. Put another way, the astronaut interrupted the Doctor's cycle. River had already completed hers, and was basically using the "residual energy" to fix herself after the gunshots.

• The Doctor requests an emergency voice interface with the TARDIS and after rejecting images of past companions settles on a projection of Amelia. This appears to contradict DW: The Doctor's Wife on two fronts: first, that episode establishes that the Doctor and the TARDIS cannot communicate in this fashion (after he asks her if they can) and second, wouldn't the TARDIS project an image of Idris since she'd recently taken that form? While it's possible to argue that the "soul" of the TARDIS (i.e. Idris/Sexy) is separate from the actual control interface (i.e. the operating system), that's also contradicted somewhat by the ending of the earlier episode in which the TARDIS manipulates her own controls.

Not really, no. We've seen holographic projections used by the TARDIS for simple communication before. The communication here is very "matter-of-fact" and impersonal, with simple relaying of facts. Think of it as communicating with the computer-like aspect of the TARDIS. The heart and soul of the TARDIS is still there and accessible, but only in the semi-sentient, partially telepathic way that it always has been.

This theory is actually backed up by one of the novels. Compassion, a (post-)human who evolves into the first fully-sapient TARDIS, discoveres that she has holographic interfaces, and reconfigures herself so she can use them to communicate with the Doctor and Fitz. That implies that a normal TARDIS has these interfaces, run by a simple (from a Time Lord point of view) AI, and they're not under control of the Heart, just as the last answer suggests.

Of course that also implies that, if the Doctor remembered those events and figured out how Compassion did it, he could also give "Sexy" at least some kind of input to those interfaces so she can at least color the AI speech with her emotions, which I think both of them would appreciate. But there are good reasons why he might not remember Compassion at all beyond vague hints (he'd replaced that part of his memory with a copy of the Matrix), and why he might not have any clue how she did most of what she did (the Doctor's only attempt to modify her was a huge mess, and she dumped him and picked up Nivet, the best TARDIS mechanic on Gallifrey, because he was the only one with any hope of understanding her).

• The child Amelia never, to our knowledge, entered the TARDIS. Also, while the adult Amy invoked "fish fingers and custard" within the TARDIS, young Amelia and the Doctor shared their FF&C moment away from the TARDIS. How would the interface know about Amelia and connect her with FF&C (and not only that, replicate her voice)?

The TARDIS has a psychic interface, it got the information from the Doctor's mind.

• Why did Amy disable her and Rory's own security bracelets instead of just the bracelets of the Teselecta crew?

• Why has the Doctor's attitude towards Regeneration changed so dramatically?

Different Doctors have different personalities so it makes sense that they'd have different opinions of things (case in point: Alcohol). Besides, he was desperate, and it's not like the Tenth Doctor stopped himself from regenerating just because he didn't want to.

• Since the Teselecta crew are so concerned about punishing Hitler at the wrong point in his timeline, why do they allow the antibodies to kill Erich Zimmerman, who presumably was not destined to die yet?