Forum:What do we call the post-Miracle Day Torchwood?
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I don't think using "Torchwood Three" to refer to the new Torchwood team (that is, Jack, Gwen, Rex and Esther), like e.g. adding the "Torchwood 3 associates" category to the Esther and Rex articles, is appropriate anymore. Torchwood Three was the Cardiff branch, and with the destruction of the Hub and relocation to America, I doubt they'll be referred to by any other name than just "Torchwood". So, what do we call them now, to differentiate them from the rest of the former Torchwood Institute? For now, I used "Post-Miracle Day Torchwood" on the Torchwood Institute page. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 16:34, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- They're still the Torchwood Three team. It hasn't changed.--Skittles the hog - talk 16:38, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think it's that accurate now. Two of the members of the "new" Torchwood used to be Torchwood Three, but given that Torchwood 1, Torchwood 3, and apparently all other branches have been destroyed, and that the organization did not exist at all for a couple of years, and is being re-established from scratch after Miracle Day, I wouldn't call them that anymore. They are now just "Torchwood", without any numerical designation. I very much doubt they'll ever be referred to as "Torchwood Three" again. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 16:41, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Until the television tells me that they're no longer in Torchwood Three, I don't believe it. You can't just say that they're now "just Torchwood" without some on screen evidence.--Skittles the hog - talk 16:51, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I think the fact that Torchwood 3 was the Cardiff branch set up to oversee the Rift, which is obviously not happening anymore and the fact that "Torchwood 3" is not being mentioned anymore is enough. If you think only them mentioning in dialogue that they're not "Torchwood 3" anymore would be enough of an evidence, I don't really see that happening, simply because they are not likely to ever mention "Torchwood 3" again.
- Official series synopsis mentions that "Torchwood was destroyed, years ago" but now "a new Torchwood team takes shape". I'd say that this is enough to conclude that they're not "Torchwood Three" anymore, but a new team, which might be comprised partly of former Torchwood Three members, but will use just the name "Torchwood". Ausir(talk) <staff/> 16:56, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
An out-of-universe synopsis isn't a source. The Torchwood team is an okay name, but not post-Miracle Day. That's just a term you've made up.--Skittles the hog - talk 17:00, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- How about using "new Torchwood team"? And yeah, I'm not saying we should use "post-Miracle Day" as the "official" name, just used it as a descriptive term. As for the synopsis, I'm not using it as the primary source, just as a secondary reference which confirms what can also be concluded from on-screen evidence. Ausir(talk) <staff/> 17:01, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Well, by episode ten, would they really be new any more? I don't think so.--Skittles the hog - talk 17:09, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- [edit conflict]
- As of ep 2, they're still just being referred to as "Torchwood", without any appending numbers. Within the narrative, numbers are frankly irrelevant right now, because, as Jack says, Torchwood doesn't exist. Let's just sit tight and see where the narrative goes. If it gives us a new name somewhere down the line, fine. If not, this is narratively the continuation of Torchwood Three, so new information about the "adventures of Jack and Gwen" can go on that page. Frankly, though, I've never really understood why we put so much information at Torchwood Three, because throughout the run of the program, there has never been a division between Torchwood Three and the Torchwood Institute. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a Torchwood Three page, but I wouldn't have linked it everywhere I wanted to say something about the exploits of Jack Harkness' team. Cardiff is the only place post 2006 that is the Torchwood Institute, for all practical purposes. This was abundantly clear in COE, where the British government saw the destruction of the Hub as the destruction of Torchwood.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 17:15:51 Sat 16 Jul 2011
- As of ep 2, they're still just being referred to as "Torchwood", without any appending numbers. Within the narrative, numbers are frankly irrelevant right now, because, as Jack says, Torchwood doesn't exist. Let's just sit tight and see where the narrative goes. If it gives us a new name somewhere down the line, fine. If not, this is narratively the continuation of Torchwood Three, so new information about the "adventures of Jack and Gwen" can go on that page. Frankly, though, I've never really understood why we put so much information at Torchwood Three, because throughout the run of the program, there has never been a division between Torchwood Three and the Torchwood Institute. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a Torchwood Three page, but I wouldn't have linked it everywhere I wanted to say something about the exploits of Jack Harkness' team. Cardiff is the only place post 2006 that is the Torchwood Institute, for all practical purposes. This was abundantly clear in COE, where the British government saw the destruction of the Hub as the destruction of Torchwood.
- Well, at least until a point there was also Torchwood Two, so using "Torchwood Three" made some sense, but it did not exist anymore as of Children of Earth. Maybe we should rethink the organization of Torchwood articles in general? My understanding is that while narratively it is the continuation of Torchwood Three (which was the Torchwood office in Cardiff overseeing the Rift), with the destruction of the Hub and Torchwood having ceased to exist after 2009, the new Torchwood team, while re-established by the Torchwood Three survivors, is now a new entity in which, given the destruction of all of the Institute's former headquarters, the former numerical designations no longer exist. So while they are of course, to a large extent, a continuation of Torchwood Three, I'd put new information about the "adventures of Jack and Gwen" on the main Torchwood Institute page, with only a note at the end of the "Torchwood Three" article's history section saying that the surviving members continued to operate as just "Torchwood".
- Yeah, and that's probably why we should hold off on any serious reorganization until the end of Miracle Day. We've not really got to the point in the story where Torchwood is reborn, nor do we know where Torchwood is at the end of this particular story. Those are, I think, vital opints for us to know.
- Of course, we need a place to write the story of "new Torchwood", and I think your approach of working on Torchwood Institute is probably the safest bet. Ultimately, this information on the Miracle Day Torchwood may not need to be moved at all, if it's put on Torchwood Institute. As I said above, I don't really get why we're so slavish in our devotion to the Torchwood Three concept. I really think Torchwood Three ceased to be relevant prior to the start of series 1. Don't get me wrong: I know we need an article on it. But since Everything Changes, the only Torchwood is Cardiff Torchwood. It is the Torchwood Institute. Other Torchwoods ppear in historical adventures/flashback only. At least I think so.
- I think what happened is that we got all excited by references to T1, T3, T4 and TIndia when the series was younger. But I don't think we actually looked at the narrative in the present tense — maybe because we write our articles in the past tense here. I think if we'd stopped and thought asked ourselves, "At the moment this action is happening, is there another branch of Torchwood?" the answer would, in the vast majority of Torchwood scenes, be "no". Torchwood is not about Torchwood Three. It's about the Torchwood Institute. It's just that by the time the series starts, the institute is in Cardiff, headed by Harkness.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 05:34:34 Sun 17 Jul 2011
- I think what happened is that we got all excited by references to T1, T3, T4 and TIndia when the series was younger. But I don't think we actually looked at the narrative in the present tense — maybe because we write our articles in the past tense here. I think if we'd stopped and thought asked ourselves, "At the moment this action is happening, is there another branch of Torchwood?" the answer would, in the vast majority of Torchwood scenes, be "no". Torchwood is not about Torchwood Three. It's about the Torchwood Institute. It's just that by the time the series starts, the institute is in Cardiff, headed by Harkness.
- I think generally, if not always, the only time Torchwood is disambiguated in-universe is to differentiate between the London, Cardiff and Delhi branches. Torchwood One I don't think is called that by anyone that was working there in DW: Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. Even before the fall, it wouldn't make much sense for Gerald and Harriet to say to non-staff "We're Torchwood Cardiff" or "We're Torchwood Three". Due to the eighteen month-two year break between the destruction of the Hub and the reunion for Miracle Day, I think that, yes, the new Torchwood needs to be called something else if it demands its own page. --Tybort
