Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Asylum of the Daleks

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This page is for discussing the ways in which Asylum of the Daleks doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:

* This is point one.
::This is a counter-argument to point one.
:::This is a counter-argument to the counter-argument above
* This is point two.
::Explanation of point two.
::Further discussion and query of point two.

... and so on. 

• If the man at the beginning was taken over by the security system, and designed to activate and attack intruders, what was he doing working when they arrive?

Like Darla earlier in the episode, Harvey did not realize that he had been converted.

• Similarly, if he was there to kill intruders, why not just shoot Amy and the Doctor when they were lying there, rather than masquerading as a victim until they're in the ship?

See above.

The Doctor is a major enemy of the Daleks. Maybe they thought that if they lured the Doctor into the ship with the other converted people they would have a greater chance of killing him.

• Daleks are shown having survived from "The Chase, The Daleks Master Plan, and Planet of the Daleks," but in those stories (and Death to the Daleks), no Daleks actually survived (who interacted with the Doctor anyway.)

These Daleks did not interact with the Doctor, but still knew he was the enemy.

However, in two of those stories at least, there were no Dalek survivors at all. It's a stretch, but I suppose we're supposed to assume there were some off screen?

I think that's the answer. To take The Chase as an example: The Daleks who went on the mission to chase the Doctor ended up in a battle with the Mechonoids and presumably died (and even if they didn't, they were trapped after Barbara and Ian stole their time machine). But there's no reason to believe that all of the Daleks involved in planning the mission and watching it on their Visualisers went down to Mechanus in the time machine. They didn't directly interact with the Doctor, but they had enough connection to what was going on to claim that they faced the Doctor and lost but survived.

The information from the Daleks may have been uploaded (or at least transmitted) to the Pathweb before the Daleks themselves were destroyed.

With the mention of Aridius from The Chase a Dalek was probably left behind, one fell into the tunnels near the end of Episode 2. With Kembel maybe some Daleks escaped the planet as the Time Destructor was activated.

• Its stated all the Daleks in intensive care are from old stories (mentioned in the point above) but they're all modern Daleks.

Since almost all Dalek redesigns happen off screen, the "new" Daleks could have been designed long ago and slowly phased in.

Alternatively, the Kaled mutants inside could have been transferred into new casings.

• If Oswin couldn't open a simple door, how did she so quickly delete all the memories of the Daleks' greatest foe, who they're all programed to kill?

One explanation is that the Daleks' memory is just simple code which could be deleted, while to open a door she would have to find the code, wipe the part that closes it, and write in more to open it, taking longer and being harder to do given the amount of doors on the planet.

Also, the door could have been entirely in her imagination.

No, the referenced door is the one that the Doctor walks through moments later. It's real. However, the previous explanation is pretty reasonable.

• Why did the Daleks leave the Doctor in the Asylum? Even if they forgot who he was, they would still kill all alien life forms, so why didn't they kill him?

These Daleks in the intensive care section were previously catatonic to all stimuli, as mentioned, and only awoke because the presence of their greatest enemy was a particularly strong stimulus. With that gone, they reverted back to their previous state.

• The dead crew members, who have been taken over by the Daleks' nanoclouds, are seen climbing down the ladder, but after the Dalek explodes, they're neither seen nor mentioned again.

Most of them move slowly and seem to lack means of surveillance, so they couldn't find them in the Asylum.

They may have just been killed in the explosion.

• If the Doctor's immune to the nanocloud, why did the Daleks give him a protection bracelet?

How do we know he was? It was just Amy's theory. They might have escaped before the nanobots could convert him completely. We have yet to know if they might have done something long term to his mind in the time without the bracelet. EDIT: It seems like a copout when Amy says, "He doesn't need it, he's a Time Lord."

He was probably not immune, more likely the conversion process would just take a much longer time to affect a Timelord. Amy probably meant that he didn't need it at that point because they would very shortly be leaving the Asylum.

• Why were all the dead crewmen just sitting neatly in their seats?

Possibly because there was no need for an extra guard or one that would so obviously deter future visitors to the Asylum. They could have lain there undisturbed since their death.

• If Oswin's such a genius, why was she working as entertainer?

Because it's fun? Smart is the new sexy.

Maybe she just got the job and was yet to be promoted.

There are lots of smart people who work simple jobs at various points in life.

Like Ace, who worked as a waitress.

• If Oswin was a Dalek all along, how was her human voice transmitted right until the Doctor discovered her? Or was the Doctor hearing a Dalek voice the whole time?

The voice was from an electronic source the whole time the Doctor heard it so I can hardly imagine that it would be beyond a Dalek to synthesise it. He didn't hear the Dalek voice until he was in the same room with "her".

We already know the Daleks can synthesize a believable human voice, e.g., with Bracewell.

• Why was there a distinct lack of gunfire from the converted crewmen?

Because Dalek energy weapons - even the primitive ones fitted into the ones into long term agents which simply stunned - possibly require more energy than the nanites can provide.

• Oswin, seemingly newly converted and perhaps carrying full capabilities of a Dalek, was able to break free of its chains; why couldn't it just go by itself to the teleport?

Oswin was still trapped in her illusion as a human and believed it beyond her capability.

• Skaro was destroyed in the Time War – which is to say, declared nonexistent and irretrievable – and nobody mentions this.

Actually no, it was Gallifrey that was destroyed in the Time War, the Daleks' planet was destroyed in "Remembrance of the Daleks"

Also, the Doctor's comments in that episode imply that the planet's still simply wrecked, like a city when it's hit by a atom bomb; this is confirmed by what we see in this episode.

Actually, Skaro's destruction during the Time War was mentioned in at least two non-TV sources. But there's no new issue here, just the same one that's come up repeatedly. By the 26th century, the Thals had chased the Daleks off Skaro (Planet of the Daleks), and yet the Daleks claimed Skaro was the capital of their empire. Skaro was destroyed when Davros used the Hand of Omega to supernova its sun, and yet the Doctor later went there to pick up the Master's remains, and then it was a battleground of the Time War. It was destroyed in the War, and yet it was there in City of the Daleks. And so on. The most popular explanation is that Skaro is just the Dalek word for "home", and every time they lose it (or abandon it) they build a new homeworld and call it "Skaro". They never directly say this on TV (they do talk about building "a new Skaro", but that's not the same thing—nobody calls New England "England"), and the only novel that confirms it is the ridiculous mess War of the Daleks, but at least it works.

• Apparently there are human prison camps on Skaro, even though it is their purpose, not to enslave, but to exterminate.

Like the Nazis did? The point is, why not exploit them first, they've done this before (Destiny of the Daleks) Plus they might be used for interrogation.

• Daleks are small pink creatures with one eye. The eyestalk and the weapon is simply a part of their armor, so naturally the people who've been partially converted into Daleks should not have had these things in their body.

It doesn't turn them into a Dalek (as referenced when it's pointed out that Oswin underwent "full conversion"), it turns them into a slave; clearly the nanogenes built these in them, to make them more effective slaves.

• Daleks are obsessed with their own genetic perfection: there are had multiple episodes detailing their disgust for human impurity, to the point of committing genocide against a human-Dalek hybrid race. But according to this episode, they think it is acceptable to manipulate human corpses and putting the resultant hybrid entities in positions of command.

Only as slaves. They are using them as tools.

• Thousands of Daleks, their entire Parliament, the ship in which they reside and the asylum planet have all apparently survived the Time War, even though this is impossible.

No this is the new Dalek Parliament, the fact there are Daleks with the new colour sceems proves this. Evidently in the time they've had they've rebuilt there numbers and brought them back, plus previous stories show, only officers (or ones with special jobs) get to be coloured, the rest are just standard Daleks.

That doesn't make any sense. The New Daleks killed the old "standard" Daleks in Victory of the Daleks. The New Daleks shouldn't be working with the older, impure, Daleks, they should be killing them.

No your misreading the comment, these Daleks in question aren't old Daleks, there new Daleks, in the same shell type as the old, only there biology was changed not there technology, the coloured Dealkes, are the officers or ones with special positions, the rest are standard drones, and before you ask, the coloured drones are probly the equivilent, of personal body guards.

Prove it. Nothing of the sort you claim is mentioned or even brought up in the story. Out of universe, the writers simply brought as many Daleks back as possible without even bothering to give an in-story explanation. Seems to me like lazy writing on their part, but we the fans have to suffer through it. I realize that you have a good theory, but what bothers me is that it is just a theory trying to explain the writer's whims.

On the contrary, while nothing that he said was stated outright in the story itself, Steven Moffat himself confirmed all of that in an official interview. That's about as concrete as it gets. And no, they did not bring back the bronze ones on a mere whim; they did it because many fans were angered by the New Paradigm design, and even the writers themselves decided that they had gone too far. So now the bronze Daleks are back, and here to stay.

Might wanna do some research on the matter.

It still frustrates me that Moffet couldn't be bothered to explain that in the episode itself. Personally, I liked the New Paradigm Daleks. Also, how did the Asylum survive the Time War and The Moment? Did Moffet explain that also?

Presumably, the Asylum survived the Time War because it was not involved in the War, and because the Asylum was considered a "myth". It was also shielded by a forcefield which prevented any transmissions out (until the hole appeared in it), and underground, so it would have been very difficult to detect.

Speak for yourself about the Paradigms; maybe if they got rid of the hunchbacks/rectums, I'd be OK with 'em, but... It'd be nice if they HAD stated it outright in this episode, rather than just imply it. Then again, considering the frequency at which the Daleks appear, it's likely to be stated sometime in future episodes. Still, how can you be upset by their final decision? It's a win-win for everyone! By the way, does anybody know when the Time War actually started?

Time Travel is involved here evidently. The Daleks didn't bring the Asylum into the war as the insane Daleks are too dangerous to control.

• The Doctor is called ‘the Predator of the Daleks’, a name he’s never heard before, even though he’s known in their mythology as the Oncoming Storm.

How is this an error? Attila the Hun was called, "the destroyer" "the abomination," "the scourge of god," etc. by the Romans, there is no limit to the number of nicknames your greatest enemy can have.

True, but they've never called him that before. Besides, in every other New Series episode featuring the Daleks, it's been established that their primary name for him is "the Oncoming Storm". Even if it's not technically conflicting with canon per se, replacing "Oncoming Storm" with "Predator" is kind of an unnecessary retcon.

• Before complaints about the Daleks fearing the Asylum but the Doctor saying Amy being afraid isn't Dalek, Daleks won't admit they are afraid. The Daleks would claim it would make more sense to have their enemy go into the Asylum then have Daleks risk destruction by the insane Daleks. The Daleks do seem to have some emotion but most of it has been removed and they won't admit emotion.