Howling:River's story continues...into Oswin?
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
I've recently been considering some connections between Oswin and Melody/River:
- They're both very flirty.
- They both possess cavalier qualities.
- Oswin appears to be familiar with The Doctor, though he's only just met her.
- The two were both involved in an artificial reality the day they met the Doctor.
This sparked a series of thoughts:
- Their characteristics are unique amongst characters created by Moffat.
- They've met The Doctor in very similar circumstances.
- Knowing the Doctor doesn't know her real identity, giving him a clue like this is exactly the kind of thing River would do.
Which makes me wonder:
Could there be the possibility that "Oswin" is "River" in the future, as she is most certainly not dead, merely downloaded into CAL, sustained by a Neural Relay, which looks similar to a USB port, integrated into a version of the sonic screwdriver, which was destroyed as the TARDIS was rebuilding. That particular sonic screwdriver was connected to the TARDIS, even more so with River's version, as this could recall it.
Therefore...
...The Doctor wondered why he gave River his screwdriver. The revelation that it was because it contained a Neural Relay, I expect, was only part of it. (It always is with Moffat.) I'm sure the TARDIS still has a connection with River in CAL, as she was born in the same TARDIS. (You could also say "her" sonic screwdriver was a regenerated form of the old one, like the TARDIS re-building itself.)
Maybe, before River's final night with the Doctor, he discovers he can retrieve her, somehow, in a way that causes a regeneration, (she has an infinite amount from being conceived in the TARDIS?) and becomes Oswin. Just a theory.
Gallifrey102 ☎ 19:54, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
She used up all of her regenerations to save the Doctor in Let's Kill Hitler. Besides, why would the Doctor save River from dying in the library just so that she could be turned into a Dalek. In another thread a few weeks ago, it was speculated that Jenna-Louise Coleman's character would be the daughter of the Doctor and River. If she's related to River at all, then I am guessing that that is what will happen.Icecreamdif ☎ 19:57, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
There seems a more definite connection between River & Oswin: not a blood relationship but a similar predicament. River, at the end of Forest of the Dead & Oswin in Asylum of the Daleks both still had a form of existence & awareness but had been deprived of their human bodies. The Doctor is hardly likely to have missed that similarity. So far, at least, he's not been able to do anything to help either of them. That is certain to bother him severely & thinking of one is going to remind him of the other. If (as seems extremely likely) there's a blood relationship between Oswin & the new companion, whose surname is rumoured to be Oswin, that'll give the Doctor even more reminders.
Where all that might lead, I don't know. Of course, Moffat is Moffat & it's possible that there will be no link at all between Oswin & the new companion (the rumours of her name could be wrong), beyond being played by the same actor. Moffat is devious enough to cast Coleman in a guest role before she joins as a regular, just to stir things up. --89.242.79.32talk to me 22:12, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
i think the similarities in personality mostly arise from the fact they were created by the same person. moffat seems to love his strong female characters. and i think the unknown past will probably revealed in some way once the character played by the actor who plays oswin becomes the new companion, whatever the new companion's relation to oswin might be. i really doubt that moffat would put an actor in as both a guest star and a companion and playing different characters with no connection both times in the same season. i mean, it's ok if there is a season gap and an explanation like with martha and her cousin at torchwood, but not within a season. and i really doubt river and oswin are the same person. it would be too similar to the whole melody/river thing. Imamadmad ☎ 23:53, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
- The major difference between Oswin and River's endings is that River died first and was then put into a simulated reality, while Oswin entered a simulated reality first and then died.Icecreamdif ☎ 00:44, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Icecreamdif, "The major difference between Oswin and River's endings ...": Details! Details! :) I wasn't suggesting that they were the same, only that they're similar enough to remind the Doctor (& at least some viewers) of each other. There have been many people the Doctor would have saved but couldn't. They aren't the only ones who've sacrificed themselves for him, either. These two, though, have features in common that the others lack. However, "features in common" is as far as it goes. What I had most in mind was the possibility that the similarities would affect the way the Doctor thinks about them. That might not do anything more than heighten his regrets & feelings of guilt. On the other hand, it might lead him to look for (but maybe not find) a way to do something to help them. --89.242.79.32talk to me 02:17, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
Mostly, I think the only connection between them is that one of the great constants in the Moffatverse states that human consciousnesses shall struggle with their humanity while stuck in non-human forms. We've had library cores, autons, WWII scientists, gangers, and now a dalek (who was more a conversion than a transfer, but I'm starting to wonder if Moffat didn't get a bit sneaky on us...). Oh, the clip-trailer I could put on youtube, showing all the psychic-widgets and ghost-in-the-machine tropes he's thrown at us. You can almost see the Doctor's mind working: "Okay, I need my screwdriver, the Teselecta, and a library card..." Wibbly-Wobbly ☎ 06:05, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
- This whole thing is built around a faulty premise: "Their characteristics are unique amongst characters created by Moffat." Moffat has created four and a half companions: River, Amy, Rory, Oswin, and part of Captain Jack. Other than Rory, they're _all_ flirty, and all possess cavalier qualities. And you could say the same about plenty of his other characters, such as Reinette, or even Jane from Coupling. And meanwhile, when you look at the ways in which they're flirty and cavalier, they're entirely different. Can you imagine, say, River flirting with Rory to keep him from getting scared (even if he weren't her father)? --70.36.140.233talk to me 10:03, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
