Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/The Doctor Falls
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Please discuss only those whole stories which have already been released, and obey our spoiler policy.
This page is for discussing the ways in which The Doctor Falls doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.
Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:
* This is point one. ::This is a counter-argument to point one. :::This is a counter-argument to the counter-argument above * This is point two. ::Explanation of point two. ::Further discussion and query of point two. ... and so on.
- How were the rifles upgrades? And if every rifles was upgraded, so why wasn't Bill destroyed when she was shot at by accident?
- The rifles weren't upgraded. It was just Nardole hacking the spaceship and exploding parts of it. The rifle shot was a deception, to fool Cybermen into believing humans have serious weapons.
- Why didn't Nardole just blow up parts of the ship that contained Cybermen?
- As he blew them up by igniting fuel pipes on the floor, due to it having been a solar farm. He'd need all the floors to be one, which they aren't.
- Wouldn't it have been more effect to point a finger and say "bang"?
- No. The Cybermen aren't stupid - pointing a finger would make it super obvious what they are actually doing.
- Wouldn't it have been more effect to point a finger and say "bang"?
- As he blew them up by igniting fuel pipes on the floor, due to it having been a solar farm. He'd need all the floors to be one, which they aren't.
- Why didn't Nardole just blow up parts of the ship that contained Cybermen?
- The rifles weren't upgraded. It was just Nardole hacking the spaceship and exploding parts of it. The rifle shot was a deception, to fool Cybermen into believing humans have serious weapons.
- Did something happen to the programming of the Cybermen, cause, I thought they only went after "humans" with 2 hearts!
- The definition was expanded to include humanoids with two hearts. So they were still heading after normal humans too. Better question, could Nardole still have went down there safely and reprogrammed the computer to discount all humanoids from their protocol? They weren't targeting him before so unless he happens to have two hearts, it's unlikely the Doctor's upgrade would have included him too.
- Your question needs separating.
- The definition was expanded to include humanoids with two hearts. So they were still heading after normal humans too. Better question, could Nardole still have went down there safely and reprogrammed the computer to discount all humanoids from their protocol? They weren't targeting him before so unless he happens to have two hearts, it's unlikely the Doctor's upgrade would have included him too.
- How comes the Doctor can remember what Clara looks like all of a sudden? His mind was wiped of what she looked like in Hell Bent, but he has a vision of her before waking up.
- Perhaps that was for our benefit and not what he actually saw? Also, he is dying, perhaps he briefly bypassed it. Note, he was in the TARDIS when it occurred.
- It is also possible that he regained his full memories at some point. He has had a while to recover. (There are also theories out there that suggest the mind-wipe never worked at all, but I'm not suggesting that.)
- He did see the waitress's face painted onto his TARDIS, and she diapered in a TARDIS so he could probably put 2+2 together to work out what she looked like. That or one or two memories slipped through the neural block, or the TARDIS does have telepathic circuits and archives or past companions. Or it might have been for the audience's benefit and the Doctor may have just imagined her.
- The process of regeneration has begun and has repaired the damage done by the potion which inhibited his memories
- Perhaps, it was simply a production error (Rory wasn't there)!
- A lot of companion weren't, likely a production error.
- Why were only NuWho companions used?
- Confirmed not a production error. Easily explained because Hell Bent establishes that the Doctor does remember Clara and their adventures, but up until Clara leaves has no memory of her voice and face. However once he sees his TARDIS and sees Rigsy's portrait of Clara, then he puts two and two together and now has memory of Clara's face and voice again. (I know we don't recognize deleted scenes in the wiki, but the shooting script for Hell Bent released on the BBC Writer's Room website confirms that the Doctor makes the connection when he sees the image on the TARDIS door.) The omission of Rory, however, I would agree is either a production error or for whatever reason they were unable to clear the use of Arthur Darvill's image. Note Noel Clarke is also absent.
- The process of regeneration has begun and has repaired the damage done by the potion which inhibited his memories
- Perhaps that was for our benefit and not what he actually saw? Also, he is dying, perhaps he briefly bypassed it. Note, he was in the TARDIS when it occurred.
- Confirmed by who?
- Perhaps some memories are stronger than others and for whatever reason, this memory of Clara is one of the few that he has managed to keep; perhaps after realising the waitress was Clara, a few of the very strong, brief memories were able to seep through. The doctor may not even be sure whether it is a real memory or one he's made up in order to compensate but either way, in his dying moments he thinks of her in the only way he can. Also don't forget that the particular clip of Clara is from Last Christmas - particularly from a portion of the episode where they are in a dream. The neural block erases memories, but perhaps not dreams.
- But didn't Rigsy paint a picture of Clara onto the TARDIS exterior? The Doctor could have easily remembered Clara from there.
- Perhaps some memories are stronger than others and for whatever reason, this memory of Clara is one of the few that he has managed to keep; perhaps after realising the waitress was Clara, a few of the very strong, brief memories were able to seep through. The doctor may not even be sure whether it is a real memory or one he's made up in order to compensate but either way, in his dying moments he thinks of her in the only way he can. Also don't forget that the particular clip of Clara is from Last Christmas - particularly from a portion of the episode where they are in a dream. The neural block erases memories, but perhaps not dreams.
- It is suggested that they could all escape in the Doctors TARDIS, but by the time they get to the top floor the Cybermen would have upgraded enough to stop them, so how do Heather and Bill get to the TARDIS without getting killed?
- They are sentient oil, different physics. Plus, the Doctor killed practically all of them when he ignited floor 0507, so it's likely the condition of the Cybermen reset some hundred years.
- Because of the above, couldn't Heather and Bill have saved Nardole and all the children?
- Perhaps but they were living in peace and the Doctor implied it was something of a penance for Nardole for his crimes in life. Maybe they felt it fit to let him serve that. Secondly, maybe the Cybermen are defeated so they are free to live out their lives there forever. Also, maybe they did rescue them, we just didn't see it?
- Perhaps we simply must assume that there are some limitations to what Heather and Bill were able to do at that time and so were only able to save the Doctor.
- Perhaps but they were living in peace and the Doctor implied it was something of a penance for Nardole for his crimes in life. Maybe they felt it fit to let him serve that. Secondly, maybe the Cybermen are defeated so they are free to live out their lives there forever. Also, maybe they did rescue them, we just didn't see it?
- So did Bill revive the Doctor or was his regenerative process just taking it's time starting? Cause if the latter, shouldn't he be dead, as regeneration has proved that once it starts it has to finish or they die (it started either earlier when he fell against that tree or when the energy came out of his hand after being blasted). Also, shouldn't him resisting the regeneration have caused his death? The Master died when he resisted the process in Last of the Time Lords
- He had been regenerating all episode, possibly prior to that. His body was already injured to trigger the process so moments like when he leant against the tree, when he was kneeling in the forest. Maybe it was just enough to keep his strength up and keep him alive, but he keeps resisting the full regeneration. The 8th Doctor didn't regenerate for a while after dying, the process was just taking longer. However Bill had hope so maybe that had an affect.
- So is it delayed regeneration or Bill's tears? Your last line leaves it inconclusive.
- I thinks its fair to say that the regeneration was simply delayed due to severe injuries (mainly because there is no evidence whatsoever that Bill's tears can somehow cause a regeneration whereas we do know that the doctor can have a delayed regeneration as happened with his 7th regeneration). With regards to him resisting it, the Master completely stopped it and so died because of the bullet whereas the doctors regeneration is happening, just very slowly because he is trying to suppress it.
- So is it delayed regeneration or Bill's tears? Your last line leaves it inconclusive.
- He had been regenerating all episode, possibly prior to that. His body was already injured to trigger the process so moments like when he leant against the tree, when he was kneeling in the forest. Maybe it was just enough to keep his strength up and keep him alive, but he keeps resisting the full regeneration. The 8th Doctor didn't regenerate for a while after dying, the process was just taking longer. However Bill had hope so maybe that had an affect.
- Did I miss something, did we actually find out what crime Missy had committed to be imprisoned for a thousands years in a vault?
- It wasn't revealed, but it's hardly a continuity problem, similar to how River Song's unknown crime didn't hurt the narrative.
- So, it's a plot hole?
- No?
- No, it's a plot hole, but one that was deemed unimportant. Note we never found out what crime the Master committed that was bad enough for the Daleks to put him on trial at the start of the 1996 TV movie. So it's not unusual. There were several loose threads left (for example we still don't know how Nardole became a cyborg or survived the events of Husbands of River Song since Extremis established he rejoined the Doctor on River's instructions well after the Doctor and River had parted company.
- This is not a plot hole. A plot hole is something that doesn't make logical sense within the narrative. It makes complete sense that the Master is on trial for something. My theory is that this executioner species have been hunting her for centuries for many crimes, including the ones that we have seen on TV as well as others that we don't know about.
- One of Moffats many loose ends!
- Not really a loose end. It's not a huge leap in logic that one of the most evil and infamous time lords is being punished for a crime - it doesn't matter what the crime is, it's the Master we're talking about.
- The Master is mysterious? He had potions to bring him back to life, we don't get an explanation to how she escaped the dales in Series 9, we don't know how he survives every time he reappears save for a few occurrences.
- Not really a loose end. It's not a huge leap in logic that one of the most evil and infamous time lords is being punished for a crime - it doesn't matter what the crime is, it's the Master we're talking about.
- One of Moffats many loose ends!
- This is not a plot hole. A plot hole is something that doesn't make logical sense within the narrative. It makes complete sense that the Master is on trial for something. My theory is that this executioner species have been hunting her for centuries for many crimes, including the ones that we have seen on TV as well as others that we don't know about.
- No, it's a plot hole, but one that was deemed unimportant. Note we never found out what crime the Master committed that was bad enough for the Daleks to put him on trial at the start of the 1996 TV movie. So it's not unusual. There were several loose threads left (for example we still don't know how Nardole became a cyborg or survived the events of Husbands of River Song since Extremis established he rejoined the Doctor on River's instructions well after the Doctor and River had parted company.
- No?
- So, it's a plot hole?
- It wasn't revealed, but it's hardly a continuity problem, similar to how River Song's unknown crime didn't hurt the narrative.
- What happened to all the residents? We only the children, Nardole and that woman escape. Did they all die?
- They moved up a few floors and must continue to defend themselves from the cybermen.
- So the Doctor nearly regenerates and is left struggling to walk due to being electrocuted by a Mondasian Cyberman. However, the Eleventh Doctor was only knocked out for a few minutes when he was electrocuted, despite the one that did such being an improved model than the "primitive" Mondasien version?
- Each incarnation is more/less durable, 4 fell from a tower and died, 10 jumped from a spaceship and lived. Besides in the Evolution of the Daleks, End of Time, Vampires of Venice we've been shown the Doctor can withstand electrical shocks and only be knocked unconscious at worst. Maybe the laser from the Mondas Cybermen is different? Bare in mind the Cyberman in the Pandorica Opens was a Cybus Cyberman.
- That cyberman was also severly damaged. There's also a good chance that the doctor had already been badly injured by the Master and his laser screwdriver.
- Each incarnation is more/less durable, 4 fell from a tower and died, 10 jumped from a spaceship and lived. Besides in the Evolution of the Daleks, End of Time, Vampires of Venice we've been shown the Doctor can withstand electrical shocks and only be knocked unconscious at worst. Maybe the laser from the Mondas Cybermen is different? Bare in mind the Cyberman in the Pandorica Opens was a Cybus Cyberman.
- What actually caused his regeneration? Was it being electrocuted by the Mondasian Cyberman?
- We will likely find out at Christmas, the first time we see Regen-energy was when he was talking with the Masters and Bill, so it may have been getting 'electrocuted' by the Cyberman in the beginning of the episode, being wounded by the master, or maybe even before hand. The whole episode he seemed a bit weakened.
- It is likely the electrocution made regeneration desirable but the blast at the end made it a necessity
- Why do these Cybermen have a death ray in their helmets?
- Why does any Cyberman have a weapon? It's just standard process for this model. Not all Cybermen are the same. Plus, it makes killing, destroying things really easy.
- Why do the first Cybermen make clunking sounds?
- All Cybermen do this. They are made of metal after all.
- Actually the original Mondasian Cybermen in The Tenth Planet did not clunck at all, a continuity error on Moffat's part.
- This is not a continuity error because the cybermen in this story are not the same cybermen that appear in the Tenth Planet.
- Actually the original Mondasian Cybermen in The Tenth Planet did not clunck at all, a continuity error on Moffat's part.
- All Cybermen do this. They are made of metal after all.
- Where did the (at least) two new settings for the Sonic Screwdriver come from? -A radio communicator, and a "blaster"???
- It is never a 'blaster', The Doctor takes the Software used to blow up the fuel lines form Nardole's Computer, therefore the sonic can then remotely detonate the fuel lines beneath the floor on 507. and the 'Radio Communicator', the Sonic has 100s of settings, we don't know all of them. Besides the Sonic Sunglasses did in Pyramid at the End of the World, maybe he thought it was worth upgrading the sonic too?
- The Sonic Screwdriver was used to blast the Cybermen up, not any fuel lines!
- It was shown in the Day of the Doctor that the screwdriver can do this as early as the Time War (as the war doctor's screwdriver has this ability too).
- Perhaps those settings were always there, but not mentioned until now
- "The Sonic Screwdriver was used to blast the Cybermen up, not any fuel lines!" - Did you even watch the show? The Doctor takes the software from nardole's laptop to be able to remotely detonate the fuel lines beneath the cybermen.
- Except, it's their chest units that explode.
- Stop refuting evidence! Nardole demonstrates the explosions with his laptop, using a rifle to blow up a windmill, then the apple to blow up a group of Cybermen! The Sonic then takes the software so it can BLOW UP THE FUEL LINES
- If you watch closely you will see its the ground exploding, not the chest units.
- Yes, you are right, I was wrong. He does target the numerous fuel line. Feel free to delete previous comments.
- If you watch closely you will see its the ground exploding, not the chest units.
- Stop refuting evidence! Nardole demonstrates the explosions with his laptop, using a rifle to blow up a windmill, then the apple to blow up a group of Cybermen! The Sonic then takes the software so it can BLOW UP THE FUEL LINES
- Except, it's their chest units that explode.
- "The Sonic Screwdriver was used to blast the Cybermen up, not any fuel lines!" - Did you even watch the show? The Doctor takes the software from nardole's laptop to be able to remotely detonate the fuel lines beneath the cybermen.
- Perhaps those settings were always there, but not mentioned until now
- It was shown in the Day of the Doctor that the screwdriver can do this as early as the Time War (as the war doctor's screwdriver has this ability too).
- The Sonic Screwdriver was used to blast the Cybermen up, not any fuel lines!
- It is never a 'blaster', The Doctor takes the Software used to blow up the fuel lines form Nardole's Computer, therefore the sonic can then remotely detonate the fuel lines beneath the floor on 507. and the 'Radio Communicator', the Sonic has 100s of settings, we don't know all of them. Besides the Sonic Sunglasses did in Pyramid at the End of the World, maybe he thought it was worth upgrading the sonic too?
- The Doctor is "killed" by an early model Cyberman. Where did this model come from? All the rest were the most recent models!
- If you look during the attack there are multiple versions, the 1967 Model, the 2006 Model, the 2014 Model. Even if some of your troops are older and outdated, they're a greater strength than non at all, so in my opinion it was an all out attack by the Cybermen therefore every available unit joined in.
- Is it explained where and how Nardole obtains the space shuttle that he uses to rescue the Doctor, Bill, Missy and the Master?
- Nardole says he found it in the loading bay.
- Why did the Doctor's hand glow with regeneration energy in the forest even before he was killed?
- As his body was heavily damaged from the electrocution two weeks prior. As mentioned above, while regeneration wasn't a necessity, it was certainly desirable at that point. Plus, the Doctor has been shown to exhibit regeneration energy from his hand previously without regenerating, namely in Angels Take Manhatten.
- So, at the end of the episode, the Doctor is making a big deal about how he hates the fact he has to regenerate once more and become someone else - resembling the Tenth's Doctor's attitude. Yet, in Hell Bent, the Doctor dismissed regeneration as man flu. This seems rather inconsistent or is the Doctor simply egotistical enough to only care how regeneration affects him?
- Just bad writing
- So it is a plot hole?
- Yes, a plot hole.
- So it is a plot hole?
- Just bad writing
- When the Doctor is remembering his companions, why does he remember them from times he wasn't present? Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, Clara, Jenny, River and Missy are fine he was there for the , but Jack, Sarah Jane and Vasta, he wasn't present for, Vasta's was in a dream too come on! They could have at least used clips from when they were directly addressing the Doctor.
