Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Death in Heaven

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This page is for discussing the ways in which Death in Heaven doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:

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• Why do the armed guards make no attempt to stop Missy when she A) Threatens Osgood and B) Escapes her handcuffs, surely they would notice Osgood taking them out of her pocket, and then Missy putting on lipstick, so why did they not try to stop her whatsoever?

• Clara mentions that the Doctor was married four times However, the Doctor has been married at least six times. Although, only four in the show.

There are only four wives mentioned in canon: River; Elizabeth I; Scarlette, who was in an 8th doctor book; and Marilyn Monroe. Even if there are more wives, it is entirely possible that Clara hasn't been told of about all of them.

This wiki does not consider canon; only four have ever been mentioned anywhere, though there is wiggle room as the Doctor states he doesn't consider Marilyn's marriage to be legal. Also, keep in mind that the existence of a granddaughter does not mean a marriage has to have been in place.

What do you mean "this wiki does not consider canon"? This wiki has a very clear canon policy. And regardless, this question can be answered under any reasonable personal canon any fan might have.

Out-of-universe, Moffat has said that the first wife is Susan's grandmother.

If you count the novels, there are three more wives mentioned, but none of them are a problem. Patience (whether she's actually the Doctor's wife, as Parkin's two novels imply, or actually the Other's wife, and the Doctor just remembers her because he's the loom-reincarnated Other, as Lungbarrow implies) is Susan's grandmother, and someone the Doctor remembers as his first wife, so she's the same person as that "unnamed Time Lady" above. Miranda's mother, assuming the Emperor is even the Doctor and that timeline even still exists, is from the Doctor's future, so he wouldn't remember her and Clara wouldn't know about her. Scarlette happened during a time that the Doctor has clearly never remembered since, which is hardly surprising given what was going on at the time, even assuming that part of his history hasn't been rewritten by Xing's restoration of Gallifrey (and if it hasn't, then the Doctor isn't even a Time Lord, he's One from the Council…), so again, Clara wouldn't know about her.

If you don't count the novels, then no extra wives have ever been mentioned.

So, either way, the Doctor's wives, as far as Clara would know, are Susan's grandmother (whether Patience, or an unnamed Time Lady), Liz, Marilyn, and River.

Plus, if you're taking the EDAs as canon, you can't ignore the fact that the Doctor's personal history has changed repeatedly, and is blatantly obviously inconsistent, which you could call the central theme of that entire series.

• Clara mentions that all of the Doctor's wives are deceased. However, it is almost impossible that the Doctor's first wife is deceased considering she is a Time Lady.

Who's the Time Lady wife? The closest to a Time Lady who the Doctor has married is River, who was just human a few Time Lady abilities.

It's possible that the First Doctor married a Time Lady wife who then gave birth to Susan's parent.

Yes, that is possible, but not a fact. Perhaps he never married Susan's grandmother. For all we know, Time Lords might reproduce asexually.

The novel Lungbarrow considers this a possibility.

Time Lords can die. And there is nothing in any media to indicate that the Doctor's first wife was a Time Lady. In fact the first reference to a marriage in licensed media was Scarlette from an Eighth Doctor novel, a human.

No, Cold Fusion (and Lungbarrow and Infinity Doctors, for that matter) was before Henrietta Street, so the first reference to a marriage in licensed media was Patience, who's either a Time Lady or a pre-Time Lord Gallifreyan.

• Considering the similarities (dead being revived) it's surprising no one makes reference to Miracle Day.

Miracle Day likewise is never mentioned even during the first half of Series 6 when Amy and Rory (or at least Rory as we don't know when Ganger!Amy replaced her) would have been under the effect of Miracle Day. Presumably there is some reason that has yet to be revealed why events such as this, and the relocation of earth by the Daleks, are never mentioned.

• All dead people are uploaded to the Matrix(a discontinuity itself?), and their conscience is then deleted so they become Cybermen. Danny mentions that he killed the boy years ago, yet the boy's conscience is still roaming around the Nethersphere. Why hasn't he been converted into a Cybermen in all that time?

There are only 91 Cybermen when Danny meets the boy, but far more people in the Nethersphere. It is safe to say that not everyone was converted.

Given that Missy has been tracking Clara, she must have been aware of Danny, so there's every possibility she held onto the boy's consciousness for a specific reason.

• According to the Doctor, the Master's plan dates back to the beginning of concept of afterlife. If this is true, the number of dead people would be trillions. Can we actually believe that every person (except the Brigadier and Danny) chose life without emotion? I know, Seb's words are quite persuasive. But at least people who knows Cybermen(like Jamie or Amy and Rory) would know how terrible that can be.

There is no confirmation that everyone who died was uploaded to the Nethersphere.

And even if everyone was, even human technology is capable of creating computers able to store trillions of bits of data (you're likely sitting at one now if you have a hard drive greater than a terabyte). If Time Lords can create sentient time machines than they can create a computer system capable of holding the consciousness of trillions of beings. (If it is only holding human consciousnesses, the total number of people known to have lived on earth according to some estimates is actually less than 100 billion anyway.)

• When Suzie and Owen died, their minds were transferred to some sort of dark void (real afterlife, perhaps?) instead of Nethersphere. Why weren't their mind uploaded to Nethersphere?

There's nothing to indicate they weren't. Maybe Seb hadn't turned the lights on yet.

I just assumed that it was like the daleks stealing the planets,(the cracks in time erased that event) I assume that not only where a lot of pre series five events erased but things like Missy's plan and the Nethersphere were added.

• If Danny is dead, then how can Listen (TV story) ever happen?

It is possible that Clara became pregnant before Danny's death, but she isn't far enough into the pregnancy for us to tell.

Last Christmas has rendered the pregnancy question moot.

It is also possible that Orson is not a descendant of Danny, but of a family member of Danny's that we are not aware of (a twin brother, perhaps).

Moffat has stated this is pretty much the case. Also, the ending of Death in Heaven leaves the question of retrieving Danny still open. Much of this may be pending what happens in Series 9 and, ultimately, what becomes of Clara Oswald. Moffat plays the long game in his storytelling. The question of Orson Pink's identity may not be answered for some time.