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Please discuss only those whole stories which have already been released, and obey our spoiler policy.
Please discuss only those whole stories which have already been released, and obey our spoiler policy.
This page is for discussing the ways in which The Magician's Apprentice doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.
Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:
* This is point one. ::This is a counter-argument to point one. :::This is a counter-argument to the counter-argument above * This is point two. ::Explanation of point two. ::Further discussion and query of point two. ... and so on.
- How exactly did the Doctor bring a tank in the 12th century? It wouldn't have space to fit in a TARDIS, so how?
- Miniaturisation ray?
- Why is UNIT so 'run down'? Meaning why are they not in the Tower of London base that was used in Christmas Invasion and Power of Three? And why isn't Kate in 'work clothes'? We've seen every other UNIT Official in Uniform or a Suit. However Kate looks like she's about to go do the gardening. Why?
- An institution as large as UNIT might have bases all over London and the rest of UK . Kate must have been on her free time when the problem occured, so UNIT called her and she didn't have time to change her clothes.
- Moffat's attempts at being PC blow up twice. First we see Black men on what is revealed to be Skaro. Where Davros is. Davros is a Kaled, people known for their NAZI-like racism.
- The only racism they ever showed, was towards the Thals (and the mutants) who they had been at war with for a thousand years (and going by the hints in the first episodes, its likely they started it). The idea that all Kaleds are white has never been suggested, nor is their any reason to assume they would care about race in their own species. Especially as by this point they are near the end of the war, and down to around one city left. If they are so desperate they recruit children for battles, who would honestly care about whether you were black or white?
- Because the Thals and Mutants looked different from them.
- From this wiki's own articles, it is not clear what caused the war, nor why Thals and Kaleds were hostile to each other. Nazi-like does not mean completely identical to Nazis, so black Kaleds (assuming they weren't Thals, as there seems to be little external difference between the two races) are possible.
- Have you actually watched Genesis of the Daleks? Or Planet of the Daleks? Or even The Daleks for that matter? The Kaleds and Thals are both clearly racist societies. Even Sarah Jane is regarded as being "other" racially by the Kaleds. The idea that there are suddenly Black Kaleds OR Thals is totally discontinuous.
- Yes, I've watched them all. Racist does not mean white supremacist, just Kaled or Thal supremacist. Sarah-Jane is regarded as "other" for not being a Kaled. That's it. Nothing else. Unless there has been a canon example of Kaleds or Thals discriminating on the basis of skin colour rather than species, there is no basis for the claim that black Kaleds or Thals are a continuity violation.
- And how would they know she's not a Kaled? They never took DNA samples from her, blood samples, nothing. You did notice all the Thals have a particular look, and all the Kaleds have a second, particular, look? And even Srah Jane, who looks much more look a Kaled than a Thal, is still seen as being too different by the Kaleds. So, what exactly is the 'racism' in this case then? You explain it, because they speak the same language, have the same culture etc. The ONLY difference is that all the Thals look one way, and all the Kaleds look a different way. And just by looking at someone, both Thals and Kaleds are able to tell whether a person is a Thal, a Kaled or neither. And discriminate against anyone whose appearance doesn't conform to their own racial group's appearance. To say nothing of the fact that Terry Nation - you know the guy who created the Kaleds and the Thals - said as much.
- Why should I explain the racism? I did not start a discussion over nothing. I was not the first to use the word 'racism', nor am I the one who makes assumptions about the motives of the production crew. Still no evidence has been produced of Kaleds discriminating against Kaleds based on skin colour. How Kaleds recognise non-Kaleds is not known, maybe it's just an instinct similar to the way Time Lords can sense each other. That's not relevant. All that is relevant is that there is no evidence that Kaled society is actively anti-black, which is what this conversation is all about. Subtly maybe, which may explain why Davros' bunker had no non-whites, but no evidence for Kaled society being against blacks altogether.
- And then in Essex 1138, there are very clearly Black people among those watching the Doctor playing the electric guitar, standing next to a tank. Of the three, the leats likely one is actually the Black people in Essex in 1138.
- Um, there actually were black people in England during the middle ages, not many sure. But they did exist, many came over with the Romans during the invasion or settled there during the occupying period. Others (such as Moorish traders and mercenaries) came over at different periods. Legitimately, concepts such as racism didn't really become mainstream until the slave trade.
- Wrong again. First, the Moors were Semitic, and looked like Iraqis, not Black people. Secondly, racism has always existed. And what do you mean by "until the slave trade"? Slavery has always existed too.
- The previous user was not wrong. It is clear that 'slave trade' in that context refers to the Triangular Trade, where organised mass enslavement of blacks really took off. This website: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/intro/intro.htm indicates that blacks have been around since Roman times, and that 'Moor' in Medieval Britain was a generic term that included blacks. Class & ethnicity were the main issues in the Middle Ages, not race. Assimilated Medieval Black British is completely plausible and not just PC nonsense.
- And then in Essex 1138, there are very clearly Black people among those watching the Doctor playing the electric guitar, standing next to a tank. Of the three, the leats likely one is actually the Black people in Essex in 1138.
- Why should I explain the racism? I did not start a discussion over nothing. I was not the first to use the word 'racism', nor am I the one who makes assumptions about the motives of the production crew. Still no evidence has been produced of Kaleds discriminating against Kaleds based on skin colour. How Kaleds recognise non-Kaleds is not known, maybe it's just an instinct similar to the way Time Lords can sense each other. That's not relevant. All that is relevant is that there is no evidence that Kaled society is actively anti-black, which is what this conversation is all about. Subtly maybe, which may explain why Davros' bunker had no non-whites, but no evidence for Kaled society being against blacks altogether.
- And how would they know she's not a Kaled? They never took DNA samples from her, blood samples, nothing. You did notice all the Thals have a particular look, and all the Kaleds have a second, particular, look? And even Srah Jane, who looks much more look a Kaled than a Thal, is still seen as being too different by the Kaleds. So, what exactly is the 'racism' in this case then? You explain it, because they speak the same language, have the same culture etc. The ONLY difference is that all the Thals look one way, and all the Kaleds look a different way. And just by looking at someone, both Thals and Kaleds are able to tell whether a person is a Thal, a Kaled or neither. And discriminate against anyone whose appearance doesn't conform to their own racial group's appearance. To say nothing of the fact that Terry Nation - you know the guy who created the Kaleds and the Thals - said as much.
- Yes, I've watched them all. Racist does not mean white supremacist, just Kaled or Thal supremacist. Sarah-Jane is regarded as "other" for not being a Kaled. That's it. Nothing else. Unless there has been a canon example of Kaleds or Thals discriminating on the basis of skin colour rather than species, there is no basis for the claim that black Kaleds or Thals are a continuity violation.
- If Davros has had the sonic screwdriver his whole life, why have we never seen him use it before?
- Have we ever seen him in a situation where it would have come in handy? Also, it's very possible that he would have no interest in a device that doesn't kill, wound or maim, especially by the time we meet him in Genesis.
- How did the Daleks know where to find the Doctor, and thus who to convert into a Dalek puppet? Isn't Colony Sarff wasting his time hunting the Doctor if the Daleks already know where he is? And if they have Bors there, what's to stop him from stunning the Doctor and transporting him like in Asylum?
- He was infected by the Colony's snake that strangled him.
- In The Day of the Doctor, it is implied that Clara remembers all of her lives in the Doctor's timestream. (The Eleventh Doctor states she had 'seen' the Tenth Doctor and the War Doctor.) For someone who've been saving the Doctor for his whole life, her ignorance about Skaro, Davros, and creation of the Daleks is quite surprising.
- The events are hazy to Clara as stated in the 50th anniversary special when the Doctor had to remind her she'd seen his 10th incarnation before.
- Clara was not present during every single one of the doctor's adventures. That coupled with the fact that these memories are really not very clear to her makes it entirely plausible that she doesn't know anything about Davros.
- The events are hazy to Clara as stated in the 50th anniversary special when the Doctor had to remind her she'd seen his 10th incarnation before.
- Why does the Doctor assume the child in the battlefield is the same Davros that will create the Daleks? After all, Davros could be a common name for boys on Skaro.
- Theoretically, yes, but the chances of him encountering someone else on Skaro also named Davros are pretty minimal.
- The planet at the start is unnamed and may not be Skaro.
- To add to that, the name Adolf wasn't unique - but today if you met someone called Adolf you would still shudder a bit inside, and be reminded of WW2 in a way the Doctor feels more passionately about
- The planet at the start is unnamed and may not be Skaro.
- Theoretically, yes, but the chances of him encountering someone else on Skaro also named Davros are pretty minimal.
- Who is the apprentice? Clara? And, for what it's worth, although it's not a question about this ep, but they might be connected - who was the familiar? And what does 'Heaven Sent' name mean? Hell Bent, i guess, is the Doctor being stubborn to save Clara?
- Yes, it's a bit esoteric, isn't it? I think Clara may be the apprentice, though, for a change, she's not the focus of the story; the relationship between Davros and the Doctor is.
- We've seen many times that the exterminate effect is this X-Ray thing, but when the Daleks "exterminate" Missy and Clara, it shows a different effect to show they've been teleported. Since The Doctor saw this happen, how did he not know that Clara and Missy did something to protect themselves?
- He was clearly under a lot of stress in the circumstances (and watching on a blued-out camera feed from afar). It's far from unreasonable to think the Doctor didn't notice any irregularities.
- I suspect he did notice the irregularity, but didn't know what it was. This might explain why he seems uncertain about Clara's fate in the subsequent episode.
- He was clearly under a lot of stress in the circumstances (and watching on a blued-out camera feed from afar). It's far from unreasonable to think the Doctor didn't notice any irregularities.