Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/The Vampires of Venice

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This page is for discussing the ways in which The Vampires of Venice doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

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• How can Amy use her mirror to concentrate the beam of sunlight to kill Master Calvieri when the sky is dark? The light in the surrounding environment wasn't at all strong enough to do that.
• In her final scene, Lady Calvieri removes her clothing before throwing herself into the water, however it is clear from when her perception filter malfunctions that the clothes are completely illusory. Master Calvieri similarly removed his cloke and wields a sword, both of which are also illusions. However, the sword hits are felt by Rory and the broom he is using is cut by it.

I think the answer to this goes back to when the Doctor and Calvieri were discussing the perception filter. Perhaps the machine creating the filter is able to create an actual sword? It's certainly possible in the Whoniverse. Gixander 14:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

It seems likely to me that Francesco was carrying an actual sword. Additionally, his and the girls' clothing weren't illusory; they shielded themselves from the sun with it (the girls on their stroll, and Francesco after attacking the flower girl.) I think we can infer that the Saturnynians are indeed wearing real clothes, and the discontinuity lies in their fish forms appearing unclothed. Rob T Firefly 14:48, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

yes the sword is real as he's still briefly holding it when his filter is off and drops it as he's leaping. Carnivius Prime 17:26, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

• None of the other Saturnians appear to be wearing perception filter generators, which implies that Lady Calvieri's device is shielding all of them, however if Amy' kick damaged her device enough to cause her to blink into her normal form, why are none of the others affected?

If I remember correctly, the only two that were "born" Saturnians were the Lady and Master Calvieri. The others were born human and were undergoing genetic transformation to become Saturnian. Perhaps they had a machine which would complete the genetic transformation from human to Saturnian (or the act of sinking into the water may have been a catalyst she was planning would work). Of course, they never got that far. And the reason I believe this is what may have happened is that when the Doctor shined his screwdriver at them when the girls were attacking, he said there was nothing left of them. Perhaps he meant they were just needing the final push to make the transformation? Possible. Gixander 14:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Rosanna's perception filter generator was hidden in the folds of her dress, she only exposed it when examining the damage from Amy's kick. Later when her filter starts glitching on the staircase, Francesco asks "mummy, what's wrong with your perception filter?" implying that they've each got their own. Rob T Firefly 14:52, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

• If the perception filter has a self preservation loophole, then why is Isabella unable to percieve herself being physically transformed into a Saturnian?

I vaguely remember Lady Calvieri saying something about the transformation doesn't occur until waking up one morning and "your humanity is nothing but a dream". Perhaps it would take effect while she was sleeping and then when she woke up one day, she's be just like them. Until then, she'd still be "human", or at least perceive herself to be. Gixander 14:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

• The Saturnian's aren't vampires, they're fish. So why do they have such a problem with sun, why do they need blood, etc? They explained the reflection, they explained the blood, but they never explained the sun well. The sun may have been drying them out, as we were shown problems with hydration, but why would it burn them?

Fish usually live in dark oceans, especially looking at this type of fish. Therefore, they will shy away from sunlight and probably heat up to an extent in which they explode.

• If Saturnyne was lost to the crack then shouldn't the planet and by extension the Saturnynians (Who presumably evolved on the planet) cease to exist?

It was just the planet that ceased to exist, not the actual aliens themselves.

As I said before if the planet ceased to exist, the Saturnynians (Who presumably evolved on the planet) would cease to exist as well.

Lady Calvieri said they escaped through one of the Cracks; they had lots of them appearing all around their planet.

Yeah, so what if the planet goes. If a house you were born in and lived in disappeared from time, would you be gone too? No. Same goes for them.

But, if Planet Earth disappeared from time, then every human would be gone, as we are all born on Earth, so the Saturnian's should cease to exist as their planet is gone, so they should be wiped from time.

Since they escaped through another crack, it is likely that going through that crack cancelled out them disappearing from time.

There are a few possible explanations for this, but they all center on the crack. It's a crack in time, and thererfore it's connecting two different points in time. Traveling through a crack makes you a time-traveler of sorts, and therefore it's certainly possible that being a time-traveler allows you to "jump" the effects of a crack (sorta like the old school time-travel games where a "time rip" would occur and start moving forward changing things, but if you "jumped" back before it reached you then you'd be alright, only in this case you're not fully affected by what the Crack does). We all know that a Crack is certainly able to be traveled through (Prisoner Zero did so) without being consumed. But once it's open to the extent we saw in Flesh and Stone, it most certainly will wipe you from time if you come into contact with it. Then again, they are a time-sensitive race, since they know of the Time War (Calvieri's response to the Doctor stating he's a Time Lord is enough to verify that), so there may be additional factors that play into this. Gixander 14:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

• Doctor usually asks all the alien races to withdraw peacefuly so he can find them a new home. Why wouldn't he do it now seeing how Lady Calvieri didn't particularly care about the death of the human race and just the survival of her species?

The Eleventh Doctor probably has different ideas about who deserves what.

I think he couldn't do this in this situation, because of the circumstances. Moving to a new planet wouldn't have helped. Certainly she had a few females, but would that be enough in her eyes to populate a new planet? There's usually some convincing of the alien on the Doctor's part before the decision is made (which is also usually in the "uh, no, I'm taking over this chunk of humanity" response). I don't think there was any true way to convince Lady Calvieri to abandon her plan. And the reason I think she'd not take him up on the offer is that she's with the last of her kind, and her plan has worked thus far, and probably would have worked if continued through until the end. After all, why would you abandon a plan that's working to go for one that there's no idea of how well it'll work? Gixander 14:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

It seemed as though that's what he was doing - that, I believe, is why he was trying to prevent Lady Calvieri from killing herself. (Why else would he try to stop her from dying, if not to save her life?)

I think we're actually talking about the entire race there on Earth, not just the Lady Calvieri. There's her and all the male Saturnians in the water as well. While the Doctor generally gives the second chance for the leader to take, the act of attempting to save her life is not what's in question here. The Doctor abhors standing by while someone dies, especially the remnants of a race. I think he recognized that she would not back down and didn't even bother, especially when people's lives were at stake. Gixander 16:31, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Also, the Doctor didn't like the fact that she didn't know Isabella's name so didn't think that she deserved a second chance.

I agree; the Doctor has shown this side of him where if he's angry, it doesn't matter if you wanted a second chance, his mind is made up (though I'm more than certain if he did offer a second chance and someone took it, he'd grant it to them). Gixander 16:31, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

• In the scene when The Doctor is climbing through the bell tower when he hear the sound of the bells he covers his ears and show great pain as if the bells were too loud for his ears to stand but in previous episodes he is able to withstand these sounds such as when he puts two sonics together or sonicing the tardis sound system.

Maybe it is different in his new body.

As we don't fully understand how the sonic screwdriver performs many of the tasks it can do (exactly how does it unlock a door for instance) nor do we know how many different settings there actually are, we can't compare the bells to the sonic screwdriver. Also, being near the base of the bell tower, it's quite possible the reverberation of the bells was amplified by the surrounding walls. Also, when he does stick two sonic tools together, he's standing at the epicenter of the sonic "wave" (or whatever you'd like to call it). The sonic wave is moving out from him, not at him. Notice, especially, that when he gets to the top and is in the process of stopping the bells from ringing, that he's more