Talk:Transformer (robot)
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Misspoke, clearly they're robots from the name. But there's no evidence connecting a larger organization to individual members. This is a single line in a book. You want to use a different page. Najawin ☎ 03:42, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- No I don't. For the same reason we don't need six pages for Martin Luther King just because each story doesn't use the same name. OS25🤙☎️ 03:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I am now finished with my revisions to the page. I assume most of your assumptions about my edits predate me actual finishing my work on the article. OS25🤙☎️ 03:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- No, I assumed it was going to be something like this. I completely and unilaterally stand behind my statement. It's clear from the context of the statement made by Primo that he's referring to an organization or group rather than a species of being. Unless you have an IU source connecting the two, they need to be separated. Najawin ☎ 03:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Indeed, it's impossible to have both on the same page, since the page as it was written had the category "organization", and your rewrite, ostensibly, would change what categories it was in to something else. These are just two different things - it's a category error, you're confusing an organized group of these creatures with the species itself. Najawin ☎ 03:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- What do we have to gain by lying and claiming that the Transformers who make up Galvatron and Unicron and the "Transformers" who are "robots in disguise" are different Transformers? Again, this is the same as the old debate to have Martin Luther King as three separate pages. This is the sort of terrible reading of T:NO RW that makes me thing we need it rewritten at this point.
- Indeed, it's impossible to have both on the same page, since the page as it was written had the category "organization", and your rewrite, ostensibly, would change what categories it was in to something else. These are just two different things - it's a category error, you're confusing an organized group of these creatures with the species itself. Najawin ☎ 03:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- No, I assumed it was going to be something like this. I completely and unilaterally stand behind my statement. It's clear from the context of the statement made by Primo that he's referring to an organization or group rather than a species of being. Unless you have an IU source connecting the two, they need to be separated. Najawin ☎ 03:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I am now finished with my revisions to the page. I assume most of your assumptions about my edits predate me actual finishing my work on the article. OS25🤙☎️ 03:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
I didn't add those categories, that was done while I was gone. Regardless, you're confusing individuals with the group, this is the main issue here. It's like conflating Dalek with Dalek Empire. Makes no sense from an IU perspective.
Now, look, should we change T:NO RW? Yeah, probably, I've been vocal about it in the past. But that's the rule. So we need to abide by it. So they should be two separate pages. All there is to it. You don't have to like it, I don't like a lot of applications of T:NO RW. But it is what it is, there should be two pages. Najawin ☎ 04:15, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- But what justifies two pages? As it stands, Galatron is referred to as a Transformer. They don't even say his species is Transformer. So your argument is there are two organisations in-universe. One is called Transformers. The other is called The Transformers, robots in disguise.
- I must cite T:BOUND. Several years ago, we had two pages for Martin Luther King, simply because two stories used different names for him. We had a forum debate and decided to keep all the info on one page. That is an example of site policy and precedent about how to read T:NO RW in these cases. If you think this is an exception, you'll need a mighty big reason why. OS25🤙☎️ 04:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Checking the archives, I can see that the forum was actually closed without resolution, and I am remembering the circumstances incorrectly. Despite this, the ability to make very obvious connections in-universe has been established by the "Donald Trump" precedent without question. OS25🤙☎️ 04:39, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- ...Where? It's in none of the saved Panopticon forums, either I, II, III or IV. The thread might or might not be applicable, you can't just insist it is without seeing the specific discussion and conclusion. (Also, the Donald Trump issue was specifically forbidden on the article's talk page due to T:NO RW. People just ignored it. I believe there was a mass merging of certain pages with different names that probably shouldn't have been merged under a strict reading of T:NO RW sans discussion while I was gone. Arguably now T:BOUND under the recent revision, I admit, but it certainly wasn't something discussed, it was a unilateral decision.)
- Regardless, if we were to merge the pages as you're suggesting, the proper title wouldn't, in that case, be "Transformer (robot)", as that's a page title for individual robots or types of robots. (Hence what I'm taking exception to here!) If we're referring to a group, members of which happen to be robots, we'd just refer to them as "Transformers", or "Transformers (group)". Najawin ☎ 04:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
