Talk:List of Doctor Who television stories

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Animation block

As of right now all the 60s seasons tables on this list has either a “story partially missing” block (yellow) or a “story completely missing” block (red) or both, with the affected stories’ columns coloured in one or the other, but would it be possible to add a new block that informs people that a particular story has been animated, and giving it a third colour (potentially green or blue)? Doesn’t need to override the current colour, it can just be as an extra notice on the respective columns, which tells you “hey, this story is still missing, but it has been animated so you can watch it anyway”. —Danniesen ☎ 10:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I like this idea. Which column would you propose this new colour indicator be added to? Bongo50 ☎ 22:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

See, that’s where I’m stuck. I don’t know how we could and should implement this. It could very easily become ugly to look at if done wrong. Would a format work which is something similar to a "Triangle" in the corner of an Excel column? Danniesen ☎ 22:52, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that'd be impossible to do, although I'm not personally sure how to attack it. I also don't think it'd work on mobile (which accounts for 66% of our readers so can't be neglected). Perhaps a really thin additional column could be added to one side of the table where this indicator goes? Bongo50 ☎ 23:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

That was my initial thought as well, although I worried that it might be too clunky and wouldn’t look good, so I didn’t bring it up at all. Or perhaps something at the top of each column. Danniesen ☎ 00:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Television stories

Given that the very first line of this article is "This is a list of Doctor Who televised stories", I propose that the webcasts and home videos are removed. By definition, they don't belong here. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 20:32, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

They have in the past been under discussion and were agreed to feature on the list. Danniesen ☎ 21:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion from two years ago wasn't closed by an admin as far as I can tell. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 21:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

In that case, it’s still an ongoing discussion and shouldn’t be changed until closed, as far as I’m aware are the rules. Danniesen ☎ 21:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I haven't removed them since you made me aware of the discussion. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 21:14, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

No no no… I’m aware. No worries. I’m just pointing it out. Danniesen ☎ 21:16, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Numbering

Currently, the pages for Heaven Sent and Hell Bent are numbered separately and The Haunting of Villa Diodati, Ascension of the Cybermen and The Timeless Children are numbered as a three-parter.

As of today, this page numbers Heaven Sent and Hell Bent as a two-parter and The Haunting of Villa Diodata as separate from the Ascension of the Cybermen and The Timeless Children. Which is it? I can't find much of a discussion about either. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 18:47, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Heaven Sent and Hell Bent used to be listed as a two-parter, and I'm not quite certain how that suddenly got changed. In any case, this was just a reversal back to that. As for Haunting being first part of a 3-parter, those others being Ascension and Timeless, this was a debate started by User:Tellymustard at some point, something I personally agree with, but this never came to a consensus and somehow still stayed as a 3-parter. This is something I corrected until that debate has reached a conclusion. —Danniesen ☎ 18:53, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Actually, correction… I first tried to start that debate by pointing out Chibnall's own word on the matter when the relevant DWM came out, but it didn’t gather much attention. But Tellymustard acted it out without debate. Danniesen ☎ 18:56, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Sigh. We've had many discussions on this in the Lost Forums. Last word was here and here, though.

There wasn't any discussion behind the change to making Heaven Sent and Hell Bent a two-parter.

As for the series 12 finale, could we have a direct quote from DWM 577, please?
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 04:32, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeaaaaaaahhhhh. That HS/HB change User:Danniesen put back is massively controversial and I didn't catch it. I reverted the one I caught on the actual pages for the episodes. It hasn't been a two parter on this list since 2020. It's one of those subjects where everyone who likes the episodes has opinions. (Including myself.) Najawin ☎ 05:39, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

The Chibnall Quote

Here's the quote from Chris Chibnall about the Series 12 finale being a three-parter. Danniesen ☎ 06:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Do we want to restart the HS/HB discussion? I tend to take the stance of DWM.

Here at DWM, we've been arguing about all sorts of things - and not just whether to count Face the Raven, Heaven Sent and Hell Bent as one story, two, or three. In the end we went with three - partly because I'm in charge, partly because Steven Moffat agreed when we asked him how he thought we should arrange the Season Survey form, and partly because I want to see if we really do have any influence over Wikipedia. -DWM 495

Given we also have TGWD/TWWL as paired stories rather than a two parter, (as does 495) it makes sense to consider this a trilogy rather than a three parter. (But, of course, there is nuance. Talalay has called them a two parter (although...), as has the BBC's blog where they put up scripts.) Najawin ☎ 07:03, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

That Chibnall quote is pretty persuasive. I'm not sure I would have have painted them as one three-parter myself, but maybe I'm mostly setting Villa Diodatti apart because of the marketing, the unique cast and setting, and the overall Utopia precedent. (We are not having that one out again.)

It's ironic, of course, that this means Chibnall has robbed himself of the 300 spot for The Power of the Doctor. (I will just note quickly that Villa Diodati was written by Maxine Alderton and directed by Emma Sullivan, whereas the prospective two-part finale was written by Chibnall and directed by Jamie Magnus Stone. This would make it unique among BBC Wales multi-parters.)

I'll leave a bit of time to allow for objections to following DWM and Moffat's lead once again on Heaven Sent and Hell Bent.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 09:18, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Hm just one quote to add, though it comes from before broadcast (and therefore before the big reveal of how Villa Diodati fits into the finale). This is Chibnall speaking with Radio Times:

"I love a two-parter. And our two-parters are epic this year. We always knew last year would be those 10 standalone stories, and this year we wanted to weave things in a bit more." (Source)

(Emphasis mine. Note the plural.)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 09:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, hearing no objections, I'm going to enact the consensus above on Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. Waiting for some more comments on Villa Diodatti, since this is a newer topic under discussion and we have quotes for either side.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 11:57, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

60th anniversary specials and start of new production

So, the scheduling note regarding the 2023 specials currently reads,

As a first for the show, three special episodes were produced to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the series. Neither are considered to be a part of either series 13 (nor that set of specials) or series 14.

Setting aside the questionable application of "neither" to a set of more than two items, there seems to be growing consensus that there will be no such thing as a "series/season 14" for Doctor Who (2005), and Ncuti Gatwa's debut (special) episode on December 25 will instead mark the premiere of Doctor Who (2003). The new Disney+ show seems to be a separate production, with the commensurate reset of its numbering scheme. (Confusingly, the entry here under the Fifteenth Doctor heading already splits the difference, being labeled "Season 1" while linking to Season 14.)

Assuming it's the case that "Season 14" has been rebooted into a new "Season 1", the question regarding stories 301, 302, and 303 then becomes not, "are they part of series 13 or 14", but, "are they part of Doctor Who (2005) or Doctor Who (2023)? And if the latter, are they the new production's "Series 0"? Three additional "Series 1" pre-specials, along with the upcoming Christmas Special? Or are they just a block of special episodes entirely outside of the regular series cadence? (That was done once before, with the four 2008-10 specials. So, there's even precedent there. It's just never happened before the first regular-season episode of the show premiered.)

Does it still sense to talk about a "series 14" anymore, or to consider the current set of specials part of the 2005-launched BBC Doctor Who production? Signals from RTD and the new production team seem to be pointing in the other direction: To the previous production having concluded with the 60th Anniversary's The Power of the Doctor, the series finale of Doctor Who (2005-2022), and everything helmed by RTD in 2023 (all four specials, and the upcoming regular season) being part of a new, third edition of Doctor Who. (That's my interpretation, anyway. And clearly shared by at least the person who added "Season 1" to this list, under "Fifteenth Doctor".) FeRDNYC ☎ 08:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

See Forum:2023 Naming Scheme Reset. Discussion is ongoing there. Najawin ☎ 09:03, 14 December 2023 (UTC)