Howling:5 things to look for: The countdown

The Howling → 5 things to look for: The countdown

There be spoilers about un-released stories here.
Run back to the forums if you're scared.

Please see the original thread Forum:5 Things to look for in Series 5 and the summary thread Forum:5 things to look for: Overall.

-Please see my previous post....This is a table to show all of the countdown numbers do not post a new table of what you think: this is a way of having one countdown, rather than several with conflicting ideas, a list of the episodes and if you have more ideas...write all of the ideas (Unless they are ridiculous) for the episode they are in.

REMEMBER: ANYONE CAN EDIT THIS....NOT ALL OF THE COUNTDOWNS ARE MINE

Henry319 14:12, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The Eleventh Hour	Eleventh Doctor. The Title Itself. Atraxi (Xl)
The Beast Below	Liz 10.
Victory of the Daleks	The Clocks with both hands to 9. 9 Spitfires. Spitfires are Mark lXs (anachronistically) Miss Breen - the Breen were an alien species in Deep Space 9
The Time of Angels	Father Octavian.
Flesh and Stone	Father Octavian. Doctor asks Amy to remember when she was seven Alfava Metraxis is the 7th planet of the Dundra system in the Gan belt
Vampires of Venice	76 Trotters Lane Calvierri has roman numerals for six embedded in name
Amy's Choice	5 Years in the future.
The Hungry Earth	Drill hits Stage 4 at 21k. Chaudry means 'holder of four'
Cold Blood	3 on the Silurian screen. 3 Deaths. 3...Amy, Doctor, Rory on earth* Three round the table negotiating for the future of Earth
Vincent and the Doctor	2 Gingers. Between June 1st and June 3rd 2...Down to just Amy and the Doctor*
The Lodger	1...The Doctor on his own*
The Pandorica Opens	0.....The Doctor is trapped forever, Amy is dead and River is trapped in the exploding TARDIS*
The Big Bang	Countdowns often end with big bangs!

This was originally proposed in another thread (actually, I think first on the talk page for an article), and added by me (anonymous) to the original thread.

This one is a bit more meta than the others. There's a countdown, starting from 11, going down 1/episode (not 1/story), which means it'll reach 0 in time for part 1 of the finale. The numbers might always be in characters' names, although this isn't yet clear. (Could the finale then involve the return of Prisoner 0?)

Also, each episode might have a countdown within it.

• The Eleventh Hour: The 11th Doctor. There are also other 11s, even in the name of the episode. There's 20 minutes to save the world.
• The Beast Below: The main guest star is Liz 10. Any good countdowns within the episode?
• Victory of the Daleks: Can't think of a 9 name. But an unsigned poster pointed out there were 9 barrage balloons in the first scene, and fewer in each one, although an anon-IP poster says there were only 7. That same anon-IP poster pointed out that there's a clock with both hands on the IX. There's also an obvious countdown in the episode, the colorwheel in Bracewell's chest (and on the Dalek saucer) counting down to him kerploding.
• The Time of Angels: Father Octavian's name means "8th". No obvious countdowns that anyone's spotted yet, short of the "10 little Indians" way the Clerics are picked off 1 by 1.
• Flesh and Stone: No 7 name yet, but the Digital Spy teasers have Amy counting down from 7, which is both a 7 and a countdown in one.

--Falcotron 02:05, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Adding others, some have been previously mentioned ...

The Eleventh Hour, countdown on clock as the TARDIS takes off from 12 ish, Rory's badge date is 20 years out (and yes despite Moffat I still think it wasn't a production mistake!)

The Beast Below, Liz 10's reign also lasts 10 years each time before repeating, Timmy says about walking down 20 decks to London, Amy's memory is wiped of 20 minutes, at the end as the TARDIS dematerialises there is a 20 mph road sign RHS of TARDIS (@ 40.30), there is a countdown of floors in Timmy's vator from floor 148 to 000

Victory of the Daleks How many squadron numbers were mentioned?, there are 12 planes when Bracewell looks through binoculars all destroyed by the daleks but 1 at a time

The Time of Angels, there is a countdown device which ends at 0 (on lower RHS of picture) and opens the door where River escapes, video timer is set at 12 minutes ish on the home box security playback video clip of River and at 11 minutes and 20ish seconds on the time loop video clip of the angel fron the Byzantium, River's coordinates are triple-7, 5, /, 3, 4, 9 by 10, 0, 12, /, acorn

Flesh and Stone, the teaser about a significant date could be 7 7 2010 from design art http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/episodes/b00s8dwd/galleries/design_art

Vampires of Venice trailers etc show 5 vampire ladies or is it really 6 ? Check about 36 seconds on the series trailer as the 5 are coming towards the Doctor he turns round and there is another woman behind him but it might be Amy but it's too quick

Amy's Choice is apparantly set 5 years after

The Lodger episode, the Doctor is stranded for 4 days but is to late in the series as ep 11 86.26.137.154 09:31, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Lots of good info! I'll have to remember to come back here for the "20s" thread. (I forget whose theory that was, but someone thinks that the "20 minutes" and the number 20 in general might be one of the 5 things to watch for.) --Falcotron 09:59, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the clock with both hands on the IX from VotD. As the anon-IP poster says in the original thread, the lighting and position make it very noticeable.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/MurasamEdge/vlcsnap-2010-04-28-22h39m46s113.png --Falcotron 14:08, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

First, for another non-9 in VotD: Two people in RL told me that the Spitfire was the F9/300. But they're wrong.

• The initial spec was called "F7/30", the design submitted was called "Type 300", and the final contract called it the "F10/35". The name "F9" was not attached to any spec ever published.
• On the rare occasions when the RAF needs to number them, they call it an F10.
• And, before you ask, the Mk IX was not the main model during the Blitz; that was the Mark Vb. The IX was built later, because the Vb wasn't fast enough to dogfight the new German fighters, and the VII and VIII were taking too long to build, so they needed something they could retrofit the old V and III models into.

Now, on to Flesh and Stone.

There are multiple countdowns. I think the first is Octavian's "On my count... God be with us all... 3, 2, 1, fire!"

The big one is of course Amy's countdown, which they talk about explicitly. Here's the lines:

• Doctor: "4 times" (for turning the wheel). Amy: "10".
• Doctor: "5 minutes max" (how long they have). Amy: "9".
• Doctor: "... if we're lucky, an escape route". Amy: "8".
• Doctor: "Have I impressed you yet, Amy Pond?" Amy: "7".
• Doctor: "I made him say comfy chairs". Amy: "6".
• Angel Bob: "There's something in her eye." Doctor: "What's in her eye?" Angel Bob: "We are". Amy: "What's he talking about? Doctor, I'm 5! I mean 5. Fine!"

After that, they start talking about the countdown, and continue throughout the episode, even saying things like, "You've used up your countdown."

However, unlike the cracks, they don't call out the implicit cross-episode countdown in peoples' names (or the fact that every episode has a countdown). I think that may still turn out to be something important that the Doctor just hasn't noticed yet. Except that I didn't see any significant 7s, and nobody had a 7-based name.

A few people have mentioned the 4-10-5-9 thing, but I think that's just a coincidence, one that Moffat may not have even noticed. The fact that the first two are responses to numbers, that's significant, but not so much what numbers they are. There's nothing that sounds remotely like 6, 7, 8, or 9 before the next 4. What there is, in every case, is a reasonable opportunity for a slip of the tongue. Whether the Angel is trying to get her to say the numbers (to scare her and everyone else around her), or her mind is trying to slip them past the Angel (as a warning), I'm not sure, but look at them:

• Trying to repeat the number 4, she says 10 instead, without consciously realizing it.
• Obviously worried about 5 minutes, she says 9, but when called on it thinks she just repeated the 5.
• Distracted, worried, and trying to think of something to say, comes up with nothing, and then blurts out 8.
• While trying to come up with a sarcastic but still appreciative answer, she says 7.
• In the middle of giggling, she says 6.
• While trying to say "fine" she slips up and says 5, notices this, tries again and says it again, and then gets it right. --Falcotron 07:26, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Skipping the episode preview and the opening credits, it's precisely seven minutes to the moment Amy says 7. My crazy theories, they only get crazier. Since we only have one fatality (who is in fact part of the last countdown), this episode - I wouldn't say the other four died exactly - where we were left with eight, that means we have seven. 122.49.159.198 13:46, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well, we're only "left with" 7 by counting the 4 who don't exist and have never existed, and it's pretty hard to count people who never existed.

The 7 minutes thing is interesting. I wouldn't quite put it past Moffat to throw something like that in as a clue, or as a red herring, for the insane fans like us. But think of how hard it would be to guarantee that it works out that way. When you're writing the script, you only have the vaguest idea of how it'll play out as far as timing. You really don't know for sure what second anything happens until you finish the final edit, and you'd have to do a lot of tweaking to get it right. Can you imagine deciding, "Let's use the other take for scene 4, because it's 3 seconds longer, but trim off 1 second from the reaction shot, and that'll put Amy's 7 at exactly 07:00"? --Falcotron 15:13, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Don't look for numbers in 2-Parters when you've already found one of them. Count down from 11 with 13 episodes?

I've been reading this, waiting for the episode. It's not NUMBERS to count down. It's numbers in each CHARACTER! 11th Doctor, Liz 10, Father OCTavian, etc.

First, please sign your posts with 4 tildes (~).

Yes, count down from 11 with 13 episodes. Do you want the 0 to come in episode 12 (the start of the 2-part finale), or in episode 15 (past the end of the season and half-way through the adventure games)?

Also, the names are already mentioned at the top of this thread: "The numbers might always be in characters' names, although this isn't yet clear." And the three examples you give are all listed above. But no one has come up with a 9 name for VotD (or a 7 for FaS). Do you have any? --Falcotron 15:49, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

I GOT IT, I GOT IT! CHURCHILL! 9 Letters! C-H-U-R-C-H-I-L-L! Oh, I am good! Sorryaboutthatchief 23:35, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

That seems a bit cheap, enough so that I'd be disappointed if he were actually using it as a clue.

Meanwhile, I didn't find any countdowns, 6 names, or 6s in general (except for some really contrived things, like 5 vampire daughters + Isabella or 5 + 1 son, or 5 + 1 mother) in TVoV. I'll have to watch it again. --Falcotron 02:50, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

USE THE COUNTDOWN >C MarthaMilligan 06:07, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Did anyone catch what time it was when the Doctor and his companions escaped the house in Vampires of Venice? Since it was dawn, I'm going to hazard a guess and say SIX O'CLOCK. [DRAMATIC REVERB] And what do you hear six minutes into the episode (from the opening credits)? That's right, bells. Also, six main vampire girls (Isabella totally doesn't count), an extremely wide shot of six doorways (from which the vampire girls spring), and six... uh designs? I dunno what you'd call them - on Roslina's bodice. 219.90.150.136 16:45, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

"Venice" has six letters. 89.244.92.57 16:04, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and "Beast Below" has 10. Sorryaboutthatchief 00:42, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

5 years on in Amy's Choice... Cannon881 16:02, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

VoV is episode 6. Bhillybillybob 20.33 15 May 2010 (UTC)

For "Vampires in Venice", I believe the BBC1 broadcast time was significant, in that it was at 6pm, while all the others have been 6:25 or thereabouts. It would mean the channel itself is helping with the arcs. Torchwood Five 92.40.83.251 04:31, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I. Am. Officially. Impressed. Stephen Moffatt was quoted as saying there was a date somewhere that we would be entering Google, Outlook, and into our iPods. This sounded to me like he expected us to find something if we did so. Thinking back to The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone after a week, I initially Googled 26/02/2010 for some reason; then, on re-watching FaS I tried searching for the time on Amy's bedroom clock, the date of her wedding, 26/06/2010...and found this: http:// www.26062010. com And wouldn't you know, it counts down to a Saturday. It also triggers this site's spam filter, if linked to. Torchwood Five. 87.80.103.44 22:12, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

In regards to that domain, 26062010.com I don't think it's something owned by the bbc or created by moffat. Do an nslookup on the bbc.co.uk domain and then onthe 26062010.com domain to give yourself an idea. It's just someone's idea of being funny. - R Breed 116.193.194.166 04:24, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

In Vampires of Venice the Doctor's card (with the picture of William Hartnell) says 76 TOTTERS LANE.

The above line was added anonymously, after the next two paragraphs were already here, by the same IP address that added the post signed "Henry319" below. --Falcotron 19:50, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

The site was registered by some guy in Australia on 1 March. Not only is that 2-1/2 months before FaS's Australian air date, it's a month before the season premiere in the UK. So, either he had inside information about the date, or he was just counting down to part 1 of the finale for no particular reason, or "Mission Impossible!" and "Today is the day!" have nothing to do with Doctor Who at all. (Maybe this was a projected release date for Mission Impossible IV at some point?) --Falcotron 21:06, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Australia and England working together for DW isn't anything new, really, and since there have been some (big) connections to the CSIRO, I'm going to say this may very well be deliberate. I'm really hoping this has something to do with DW, because if so, that's the best set up ever. 219.90.240.172 15:13, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh my gosh, I have one for 9 and Victory of the Daleks. The clock in the background, (can't remember when) has both hands pointing to the 9, this is impossible :)

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/MurasamEdge/vlcsnap-2010-04-28-22h39m46s113.png -Henry319 18:22, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

First, whatever you did that screwed up the formatting and inserted hundreds of blank lines--please don't do it again, and you might want to report it as a bug if you can figure out what you did. I fixed it.

Anyway, if you scroll farther up the page, that exact same picture (even the same URL) is already here, pointing out that both hands of the clock are on IX.

As for that being impossible, as I explained on another thread, it's not impossible. I don't know what kind of clocks they used in the War Room, but it's pretty plausible that they were early quartz clocks, most of which only moved the minute hand once every minute and the hour hand once every hour. If you look at the first Swiss quartz clock, you can see that the hour hand is exactly on the hour, even though it's 10 minutes past.

Finally, I'm pretty sure you're the one who added the line about 76 Totter's Lane on the library card in the middle of other people's posts. If so, that's the address of Foreman's yard, from the very first episode of the show. So, unless you think they were planning this season's arc in 1963, it's hard to imagine that the address is a clue to anything. --Falcotron 19:50, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't notice any 4 names or 4s in general in THE, but there is an obvious countdown. --Falcotron 03:45, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't saying they had planned 76 Totter's Lane from 1963, I was just saying they used it in that episode because there was no 7 in the previous episode (if the countdown is real).

11 - The Eleventh Hour, the eleventh Doctor (you could also say 12 was in this episode, as it took the Doctor 12 years to get back to Amy)

10 - Liz Ten in The Beast Below

9 - Nine on the clock (pretty vague...) in Victory of the Daleks

8 - Father Octavian in the two Weeping Angels episodes

7, 6 - 76 Totter's Lane on The Doctor's library card in The Vampires of Venice

5 - 5 years in the future was the setting in Knebworth in Amy's Choice

4 - Four people left in the church in The Hungry Earth (The Doctor even said out loud about the four people)

Sorry about that don't know what happened, I wasn't the one who said 76 Totters Lane.

Thanks, --Henry319 19:50, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

4 - In THE, at about the first minute mark, when the drill hits 21k, it's "Stage 4". And there's a countdown. Lee Horrocks 16:38, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

In CB I havent found any 3s, but once more we find Amy counting down, this time of her own accord, counting down how much time they have left.87.113.12.129 08:43, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

I thought CB was pretty simple - three deaths. :P I'm going to go with two gingers for the next one. 219.90.240.172 15:07, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Alaya, Malokeh, Restac, Rory... that's 4 deaths. Unless Rory doesn't count because he never existed or something. --Falcotron 21:24, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I think I found the 3 in CB: towards the end of the episode (35:12) there is a picture of the screen that activates the toxic fumigation with the roman symbol for 3 on it (or at least close to it)

TimeLady 18:52, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt that it's the deaths because that would be 4 but if it is, you can say that 3 Silurians died. Even though I'm loving the initial idea of all this i'm not too sure if it's right anymore. Made sense at first but now it seems like everyone is just grabbing at straws. V00D00M0NKY 01:00, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

3 capsules sent to the surface to pick up the humans and Alaya. 187.112.13.102 11:27, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

4 - The kid, Elliot's quotation from Sherlock Holmes, 'when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.' is from Conan Doyle's book 'The Sign of the Four', in which 'Four' means 4 prisoners. Sorry for my poor English. grabpot 01:24, June 03, 2010 (UTC)

6 - Saturnynians is from Saturnyne, and the similar spelling planet, Saturn is the 6th planet in Solar System, if we count from Mercury. grabpot 01:32, June 03, 2010 (UTC)

V00D00M0NKY, I'm inclined to agree with you. Even though I was pushing this one pretty hard, it is starting to look like everyone (including me, of course) has been clutching at some pretty thin straws.

As I said in one of the other threads, we should keep in mind that we're supposed to be looking for things that occur in _most_ episodes. If we can't find a good one for one episode, that doesn't mean we should grab just anything that seems even remotely plausible--it could just be that that "thing" isn't in that episode.

PS, grabpot, good catch! It still sounds like a stretch to me, but not nearly so much as most of the other things we've been suggesting for later episodes.... --Falcotron 13:28, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

I believe the word you guys are looking for is "Apophenia" Garaiavu 00:53, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly I had to look up the meaning of that word but, yes that is what we mean. The funny thing about it is that I supported a few of these theories even though I didn't see them myself. Partly because some of them were so interesting that I wanted to believe them. V00D00M0NKY 08:42, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

six - the roman number Vl is embedded in the name Calvierri

four - the name Chaudry (Nasreen's surname) means 'holder of four'

two - Dr Black says Van Gogh painted the Church between the 1st and 3rd June

or 3 . . .2 . . .1 could be Amy, Rory, Doctor, then Amy and Doctor, then just the doctor

The penultimate episode will, I think, feature Prisoner Zero in some way and lastly, of course, comes the Big Bang.Dnalottah 01:03, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Oooh...I like the idea of the doctor slowly becoming more and more alone, though I suppose you could say in Vincent and the Doctor it wasn't just the doctor and amy, there was vincent too... but if your talking strictly companions, it makes sense, since the Lodger looks like an Amy-light episode. Then the penultimate episode... people have been talking about the doctor dying, so it would work out that there were 3, then 2 then 1 then no doctor....It may not be part of the 5 thing to look for, but I think the symbolism is nice.87.112.105.201 09:49, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

I love the idea that it's the 3 of them then Amy & the Doctor then just the Doctor. It actually kinda works out. V00D00M0NKY 06:21, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I find "Chaudry" meaning "Holder of Four" very interesting. Unlike Anon IP up there, it's not making concessions to see a pattern (which is Apophenia). Chaudry goes back to the original countdown in the characters' names, I like it :) Garaiavu 10:11, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

TEH:11 - The Eleventh Hour, the eleventh Doctor (you could also say 12 was in this episode, as it took the Doctor 12 years to get back to Amy)

TBB:10 - Liz Ten

VOTD:9 - Nine on the clock or Nine Planes

TTOA & FAS:8 - Father Octavian in the two Weeping Angels episodes

TVOV:7, 6 - 76 Totter's Lane on The Doctor's library card.

AC:5 - 5 years in the future was the setting in Knebworth.

THE:4 - Four people left in the church.(The Doctor even said out loud about the four people) or the drill reaching Stage 4 at 21k

CB:3 - 3 silurian deaths (Alaya, Restac, Malokeh) or 3 deaths in the episode ( Rory, Restac, Malokeh) or the roman numerals III on a Silurian screen

VATD:2 - 2 Gingers or between 1st & 3rd of June.RPSMan 14:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Guys! Can we please find a way of having one countdown, rather than several with conflicting ideas. Please can someone create a list of the episodes and for each one write all of the ideas (Unless they are ridiculous) for each number. Thanks Henry319 12:32, June 12, 2010 (UTC)Henry319

Good Idea! We need some order.RPSMan 14:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the table, Henry. However, there are a lot of things wrong there, which I wanted to discuss before just changing it:

• There's no evidence the Spitfires were Mark IXs. They never specified it on-screen, and the model appeared to be based on (according to a friend of mine who's a WWII aviation buff) a post-war modification of the Mk III as a training plane.
• Are you sure there were 9 Spitfires? People counted 9 Stukas and 9 barrage balloons, but there were clearly 12 and 7 of those.
• Father Octavian doesn't work for FaS, which should have 7s.
• 76 Trotters Lane is a hell of a stretch for a 6. And the argument that VoV is both 7 and 6 because FaS "missed" 7 is beyond silly, especially when you already have a 7 for FaS, and the other two-parter doesn't work that way.
• Calvierri has the Roman numerals for 56 (LVI). Yes, there is a 6 in there, but it's just as much of a stretch as there being a 6 in Arabic 76.
• There were at least 4 deaths in Cold Blood: Alaya, Restac, Malokeh, and Rory.

Also, part of the theory is that there are countdowns in most of the episodes, as well as the meta-countdown across episodes, so I think there should be another column listing the countdowns in each episode.

It also might be worth having a separate column for countdowns in names specifically. Yes, I realize they aren't in every episode, but, as I already mentioned, both Smith and Moffat said "most episodes", not "every episode". --Falcotron 13:19, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

The Spitfires are listed on IMDb as being an anachronism as they are Mark lXs, which weren't being used at that stage in the war. This wasn't in connection with a countdown in any way. Myself, I wouldn't know.

I agree that Father Octavian only counts for TToA and that 76 is a stretch but don't think its quite the same case with Calvierri, where the vi can be taken in isolation. (Besides I think embedding the number in the name like that is quite clever, as is using the name Chaudhry.)

I'm not sure about the 7 being Amy's age but can't find another 7 in that ep. I would have liked it if all the numbers had been connected with names, but haven't been able to find any other name/number connections. Although MS and SM have said the five things are in most, rather than all episodes, I don't think that would really work for a countdown.

I don't think the table should be changed - let it stand as an amalgamation of people's guesses until they are proved to be right or wrong.

Good idea about the extra columns.81.141.81.126 22:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if you could class it as a countdown, but in The Lodger, the Doctor says to Amy "what do the numbers say ?", she looks up at the screen above the Tardis console and says "Nines...all nines.....", then later the Doctor asks her again "The numbers Amy...?" and this time she says "Fives....all fives...." 187.59.112.186 06:19, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Amy was 7 years old when the Doctor first met her... they returned to the place (Leadworth) where Amy and the Doctor first met when she was 7... Doesn't make much sense but the only other time the Doctor mentions a 7 is when he says he is 907.... DoctorHer 11:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I agree there is a countdown occuring in these epsiodes, whole heartedly in fact. I think if SM could have built in the finale date so long ago, he might have added something as fun a little countdown hidden in the works of each episode. For me it, it was the seeming uncoinsidental progree from "11th hour" to "Liz 10" (skip VoD) and then "Father OCTavious" that got me thinking. Nine does not seem very apparent, but I'll agree with the "clock". I think 7, though, is VERY apparent in FaS. Not only is it the number in Amy's countdown that catches the Doctor's and River's attention. It is also the age of Amy in the now infamous "second doctor scene". Six: Saturnaian's = sixth planet, Brillant catch! Can I add that in the lodger there is only 1 floor to the building, not 2. For all these I mentioned, its particularly hard to reason them away, because they were chosen in the writing process. particulary Liz 10 and Father Octavious. If its highlighted in the writing, I think there's something to it. But why a countdown? Well, I subscribe to the whole: the Doctor = Prisoner 0 theory. and, until im most likely proven wrong on saturday, this countdown goes to 0 in the episode the doctor is locked away. ~Ender.Wiggin