Theory:SJA television discontinuity and plot holes/Death of the Doctor

If you'd like to talk about narrative problems with this story — like plot holes and things that seem to contradict other stories — please go to this episode's discontinuity discussion.

• Jo Grant forgot her encounter with the Eighth Doctor in the 90s in Genocide.

The nature of her encounter involved the creation an alternate timeline.

Novels aren't canon, especially if overuled by a television show.

Not true. Canon is a term that has been constructed by fans. A Doctor Who official once said there was never any sort of canon used by the creators.

Yes, but canon refers to anything within the Whoniverse. It refers to what counts, as such, and what doesn't, so in a way, every TV show has a canon to distinguish sketches, etc, from the real thing. Novels are generally not considered canoncical, especially, as said above, if they contradict sources that are definitely canon; Doctor Who, SJA and Torchwood.

Given that the possibilities of alternate timelines and parallel universes, canon is not a necessary thing for Doctor Who. The Doctor's "507" number of regenerations on a spin-off conflicts with the "13", massively. Given Doctor Who is the main show, it would over-ride the SJA comment.

given the seemingly randomness of the number 507 and the way the Doctor casually delivers it suggests he could just be joking anyways. He's always been a bit weird about his age so why not his regenerations especially as he would be 'running' out at this stage.

I see your point. However, the "canon" referred to here, I think, was meant to be referring to the main universe the three Whouniverse series are set in. (you are right, the conflicting events of novels, etc, could be true in parallel universes) As for the Doctor's regenerations, as both are in the Whouniverse, us fans will do what we always do; find a reason until a "real" one is explained on screen LOL. I think that, probably, the Doctor was not being serious when talking to Clive, maybe just saying that to impress him, or because his mind was otherwise occupied, etc. Or maybe the previous statement of 13 was a lie... but I, like you, give the main series canoncical priority.

The "507 times" was not accidentally different from the established 13 incarnations. So, it was presumably one of three things: a glib, off-hand comment by the Doctor (he's known for these, and they are not always true), a reference to something other than the standard regeneration process we know of, or an indication that the number of regenerations has changed since the old days (likely somehow related to the Time War). We can expect that this will be addressed in future episodes.

• Wouldn't Sarah Jane object to Tia Karim being in her attic and seeing Mr Smith. Previously she didn't want UNIT to know about him.

She may have become more lenient, seeing as she has had numerous contacts with UNIT (During the Horath situation, Dalek invasion etc.)

Seeing as it's evident that UNIT are aware she runs a anti-alien-invading force, that she's bound to have technology in there. But they aren't Torchwood, so they might let her have it.

Perhaps even the Doctor told them to leaver her alone.

She could have been so distraught by the news of the Doctor's death that she didn't think about them seeing Mr. Smith.

I agree, this seems to contradict previous episodes in which Sarah tried to cover up the existance of Mr Smith from UNIT. I think the most logical explanation is that she was in shock, so forgot.

• When the Doctor is talking to Jo, he refers to her, and her grandchildren's, future. Surely this is against his principals to tell someone their future? (hence him not looking at River's diary at the end of the Forest of the Dead) Also, he refers to Jo's happy life... maybe this is (albeit weak) proof that Jo didn't die as a result of a house fire in 2028?

He doesn't tell her anything that changes the course of time, so no harm is done. He has great affection for Jo, and this is simply a nice gesture. The Doctor is not known for his strict adherence to the rules.. As for the house fire, that's never been established or even mentioned on the TV series.

• Considering that this episode takes place in a UNIT base, there are very little UNIT personnel seen, their presence going from minor to non-existent once the true nature of the Shansheeth is revealed. Where did they go? Surely someone should have stayed behind to guard the base, considering they have alien and human visitors in the base during curfew?

It could be that they are simply just not shown (and are in other parts of the base). The female UNIT officer has presumably been left in charge of the funeral arrangements and the Shansheeth. Also, with the lock-down she implemented, perhaps other UNIT officers simply couldn't get into the area to help.

It's clearly stated that this section of the base has been put into lockdown. Colonel Karim did this to isolate them from getting any help.

• The fact that Clyde and Rani are grounded on Earth and cannot leave the planet due to legal restrictions with the Jadoon plays a major part in the episode following this one, so why is it that Clyde can go to that other planet without the Jadoon taking any notice. Surely if they were grounding people on a planet, they would have meaures which inform them of those people leaving it.

Clyde and Rani can not leave the planet due to legal reasons, there is nothing physically holding them there. The robots decided to uphold the law, and did not see Clyde and Rani's presence as a threat to their mission. The Doctor doesn't care about following the law, and he needed Clyde to leave Earth if he wanted to get Earth.

• Tia Karim said she was from the unified intelegence taskforce but it should be the united nations intelegence taskforce

UNIT have called themselves the Unified Intelligence Taskforce, ever since the 2005 revival. No canon reason has been given for UNIT's change in name.

• Plot hole not discontinuity: why would UNIT send that many armed soldiers just to tell Sarah Jane that the Doctor is dead? Why draw that kind of attention? There's no indication they expected any danger. Why not just send a couple of soldiers in one vehicle and be a lot less obtrusive?

UNIT probably knows that dangerous aliens on Bannerman Road are not uncommon, so they sent that many soldiers for "safety in numbers". Also, Tia Karim could be a very high-ranking, important member of UNIT, so that number of soldiers could be deemed nessesary for her protection.

That doesn't wash for me. If shes' so important that she can't go out in public without that sort of protection (and even the Brig isn't that important), then someone else should be sent for death notices (esp. for a semi-secret organization). And there is no way they can believe Bannerman road is so dangerous that they can't travel there without a lot of guns - else they'd evacuate the area and not have the civillion population there. And even if that was the reason (and I don't buy it, as I said) then such an explanation would need to be given on screen, because it is not something the (child) audience could intuit. I think it's clearly done for "shock value" with no consideration for the fact that it makes no sense. Tzigone 13:48, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

• Sarah Jane asked what happened to the sonic screwdriver, andthe Doctor said the Shansheeth had taken it off him, so how come later he says it's in theTARDIS when the Shansheeth can't get inside to put it there in the first place.