Howling:Your favorite "Hidden Clues" in S5-6

The Howling → Your favorite "Hidden Clues" in S5-6

There be spoilers about un-released stories here.
Run back to the forums if you're scared.

Last season, The Moff proved that we're not wasting our time looking for hidden clues in the production. Doctor's not wearing his jacket, but then he is? Super subtle, and turned out a huge part of the finale. Etc. Now, of course, he's stoked the fire again with these Fourth Dimension messages.

Here are my favorite unresolved clues from the past season-and-a-half:

• Amy messing with switches, and suddenly turning around and acting scared, as soon as she enters the TARDIS.
• The TARDIS door was open, and is seen being closed, when nobody should be in there, as pointed out early in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6wczbYfip4
• The gibberish line Idris spouts amid other lines that would be spoken later in the episode. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Howling:Idris_in_the_cage (Yes, they say the script demands gibberish... they also film false endings.)
• DIHS logos on the hospital ship in Curse of the Black Spot. (IMO, if this wasn't going to be significant later, it would be a symbol without lettering.)
• The fact that Rory remembers 2,000 years as an Auton, an experience he never actually endured in this incarnation.

What are yours? Agonaga 19:49, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

I just watched that youtube video you metnioned. I think the door closing is just the wind or itself closing. as for the figure thats in the video it is really creepy but could it just be a statue? and the person moving in the same clip I think is just a production error. The only hidden clue that has freaked me out is the blacked out figure that can be seen hiding behind the wooden hut when the doctor is shot dead by the astronaut, if that turns out to be a production error I will be really pi**ed :/ -- Michael Downey 19:59, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hadn't noticed the hut thing, will look for it in my next re-watch, unless you'd be kind enough to provide a link to a clip. I feel the same way about the TARDIS door though, actually - wind notwithstanding, why would the door have been open in the first place? Agonaga 20:03, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Here's the link, it's quite good - http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/impossible-astronaut-hidden-clue-20370.htm#more-20370 -- Michael Downey 20:08, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

OMG I've just realised in this first clip of amy turning around if you listen carefully you can hear the Silence making that growling noise they do. Does this mean they where in s5 ep2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6wczbYfip4) -- Michael Downey 20:14, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

MD: re: the figure in TIA, oh my!! And another one behind River's head! Gotta be intentional, IMO. Thanks! re: the Silence growl in TBB, I'd want to check the original for sound cues, too easy to edit in, but good find if it's in the original. Agonaga 20:18, June 1, 2011 (UTC) PS: Sorry, but I'm actually not hearing it. Sounds more like ominous music to me, it lacks the distinct clicking noise from the Silence's growl. Agonaga 20:20, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

The second figure behind river is just canton when he first ever appears but I know how deliberate is the 2nd figure. About the clip I've listened to it lots of times now in complete silence and I can personally hear the clicking noise -- Michael Downey 20:23, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

re: clicking, fair enough, my speakers were garbage when I bought them 10 years ago. Btw, I'm surprised nobody's busted my chops yet, re: the Rory Remembers Never Being an Auton for 2,000 Non-Occurring Years thing, when all the characters seem to remember everything that never happened... I admit that last point of mine was weak. Agonaga 20:28, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, this isn't quite what you're looking for, but my favorite hidden clue so far is the future Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut wearing the wrong shoes. When we saw the Doctor lose his shoes and then get the new wrong shoes in The Rebel Flesh, the camera lingered on it. Then we saw Amy noticing something about his feet. Then the Doctor explicitly called out the shoes. And all of this set up for... the Doctor revealing in The Almost People that he'd swapped shoes with his ganger. Not quite a red herring; it was an important plot point, just not the one everyone was looking for. Brilliant. And you know the Moff was thinking of last season's jacket when he cooked it up. --99.8.228.227 02:48, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

The 'clue', or 'hidden element' that still bugs me to this day is the reference by many characters throughout both series 5 & 6 to "The Doctor in The Tardis" instead of just saying "The Doctor". This leads me to think that there must be another Doctor somewhere that these characters are aware of thus necessitating a clarification of which particular Doctor they are referring to. I'd assumed that when the Doctor's ganger appeared in The Rebel Flesh & The Almost People that the mystery had finally been resolved and the Doppelganger would escape and become an alternate Doctor, only this time without a Tardis. This didn't happen (or at least I presume it didn't), and so I am still left puzzled by the phrase "the Doctor in the Tardis doesn't know" which has been repeated on so many occasions. ChrisL 13:03, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

"The Doctor in The Tardis" might be a clue that there's another Doctor somewhere. That would explain how the Doctor could be killed in The Impossible Astronaut without bringing the show to an end. On the other hand, it could just be an unnecessarily wordy phrase. Steven Moffatt is a twisted individual who's capable of almost anything, which is what makes him a good writer. --89.240.249.49 14:01, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I might be mistaken, but I could have sworn that at the end of almost people the ganger doctor said something about being able to live through it before pulling out his screwdriver and dissolving them all. (Speaking of which, if he still has THAT screwdriver how does the doctor have one too?)

I caught that too. I think the screwdriver was also cloned somehow. It clones the clothes so why not items? I think the Ganger Doctor gave the other Doctor his screwdriver as part of making them think that he was the real Doctor. I was wondering about the Ganger Doctor somehow coming back because of what he said there at the end. It is very possible. V00D00M0NKY 05:00, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

In "The 11th Hour," the new (er... fixed... regenerated?) TARDIS produces a new screwdriver for the Doctor (at least I think it's that one... could be another episode, possibly one with River in it as he has to give her one at some point). The Sonic can be replaced, and has been a few times. So there could just be copies. Or it's another clue, like the jacket last year (and the shoes this year?) 50.95.107.92 04:23, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think I love in "The Lodger" when it looks like Amy has seen a Silent or two while in the TARDIS (see this). I doubt they'll mention this again, though, because she won't remember, of course. Glimmer721 01:29, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

ok, so here's what i think. now that it's been pointed out, i can hear the silence's growls/clicks. the phrase "the doctor in the tardis" could be in comparison to the meta-crisis doctor, who is the doctor whithout a tardis (and also, he will probably come back at some point or else they wouldn't have made him). i think the sonic and shoe point has been covered in another thread. i think the figure behind the hut will be something though because i can't see why anyone would be there for it to be a production error. Imamadmad 06:17, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

The Meta-Crisis Doctor was created by RTD as a way to complete the story of Rose and the Doctor. He didn't intend to bring them back (he came up with the idea after he'd decided not to do the spinoff Rose Tyler: Earth Defense), and now that Steven Moffat's running the show he's not using any of RTD's characters. Of course he might come back in the anniversary special or something, but it doesn't seem that likely.

As for a Doctor without a TARDIS, off the top of my head: the 1st Doctor didn't have one until he stole it; the 3rd Doctor didn't have a working TARDIS (stuck on Earth) for almost his entire run; the 4th Doctor was stranded without his TARDIS (using time rings for travel) for a while starting with Genesis of the Daleks; the 8th Doctor lost his TARDIS, first traveling in a companion who'd turned into a TARDIS, and then spending over 100 years (stuck on Earth) waiting for his TARDIS to regrow; the Meta-Crisis 10th Doctor was (or will be) stuck without a TARDIS until his new one grows from the "coral"; the future 11th Doctor seen at the start of The Impossible Astronaut who'd been running for 200 years didn't appear to have a TARDIS. The fact that MC10 is temporarily TARDISless isn't all that special. --173.228.85.118 05:08, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

the coral given to the meta crisis doctor was in a deleted scene and therefore not canon, and also it wouldn't have worked with the energy from that universe ("it's like putting petrol in a diesel engin"). we don't know for sure the future 11th doctor was tardis-less, just that we didn't see it. also, it would be unlikely for it to be the 1st, 3rd, or 4th doctor they are refering to as the actors are either old now or dead and so it would be hard to run into them again for an episode where they explain it and it is unlikely to be the 8th doctor because the time you are talking about happened in spin-off media which isn't always considered canon by everyone and there have only been small references to spin-off media in the broadcasted show so i doubt there would be an episode in which a major plot point is started in spin-off media (not including adaptations). so therefore, the meta-crisis doctor would be the easiest tardis-less doctor to come back for an episode to explain that point, unless it was just an unnesicarily wordy line which doesn't mean anything. Imamadmad 06:52, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

There is no official canon. RTD, his predecessors, and the BBC all avoided ever making any proclamations on canon, and Moffat has gone even farther. Anyway, RTD explicitly said that he thinks fans should consider the coral scene to have happened, but it works either way. And meanwhile, if it wouldn't have worked, why would the Doctor have given it to him in the first place?

Tom Baker, who played the 4th Doctor, is in his 70s, healthy, still working regularly, and in fact playing the 4th Doctor again on Big Finish Audios. So there's no reason it would be hard to run into him again. (Also, it's worth mentioning that, while Hartnell is dead, he never played the 1st Doctor as a young man on Gallifrey, and they'd use another actor for that part even if Hartnell were miraculously resurrected in his late 50s today, just as they did for the 9-year-old Master.)

As for the novels not being considered canon by everyone, that's true, but irrelevant; they can and do use elements from the novels sometimes, just as they can and do contradict elements from the novels—and, for that matter, from TV. Moffat doesn't care what anyone thinks is canon; he cares what makes a good story. I agree he's unlikely to pull the 8th Doctor out of the middle of the Earth arc, but that's not because it would be "against the rules" or because some fans would be annoyed that he contradicted their personal beliefs on canon.

We don't know for sure that the future 11th Doctor was TARDISless, but we do know that, when asked "Where was the future Doctor's TARDIS?" his answer was that it's a very good question, and "it's worth keeping your eyes open" about it. Also, we do know that he arrived in his car, with no TARDIS in view, and that none of the companions thought about the need to destroy his TARDIS to prevent aliens from getting to it like they did with his body, which seems pretty implausible if he had it.

Anyway, I don't think any of these are at all likely—MC10, young 1, Earthbound 3, time-ring-using 4, amnesiac 8, or future 11—but there's nothing special about MC10 that makes him more likely than the others. --173.228.85.118 07:18, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

My personal favourite 'clue' is the anachronistic appearance of the Ghurkin. I know it hasn't developed into anything yet, but if it's an error, then it could be a clue.

Gallifrey102 22:03, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

adding to what i said above, the doctor without a tardis could be doctor donna or maybe jenny? Imamadmad 08:11, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

As with the other possibilities, neither of those is impossible, but neither one is at all likely. Martha Jones is also a doctor without a TARDIS, as is Nasreen Chaudry, and all of the hundreds of other characters in the history of the show with an MD, PhD, or equivalent. But so what? If the line is referring to Donna (or MC10, or anyone else) that means that (a) somehow Donna knew about the cracks in the universe, (b) Prisoner Zero knew that Donna knew about the cracks, (c) Prisoner Zero knew that she was Doctor-Donna, and (d) the fact that Donna knew about them was somehow ironic in a way that Prisoner Zero had to go out of his way to comment on. Does even one of those four parts seem at all plausible? (Especially after we saw the whole thing flower and then get resolved without Donna being involved at all.)

The obvious meaning of "The Doctor in the TARDIS" is that the TARDIS was the cause of the cracks and the explosion, and that's why it's ironic that the Doctor in the TARDIS didn't know what was the cause. Sure, there could be a double meaning, but it has to be as plausible as the obvious meaning, and none of the other examples come close. --173.228.85.118 10:43, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

okay probably already been spotted/explained but decided to rewatch season 6 to spot clues when i noticed this behind the doctor http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll201/billybolsup/doctor/ okay so i am watching realtime and like i say it will probably be explained before the end of the episode Tooty1967 19:11, August 9, 2011 (UTC)