Forum:Image appropriateness issue

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I'd like to get a community consensus and/or a mod ruling on the issue at Talk:Sex#Image, specifically the use of File:Sex.jpg and the appropriateness of NSFW screenshots to this wiki. What do you think? — Rob T Firefly - Δ∇ - 21:14, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

No sex shots, no snuff shots. Boblipton 21:44, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Let's see what we're discussing, here

As I've already indicated at Talk:Sex, I'm fine with the image. I certainly don't agree with Boblipton's black and white approach. To my mind, anything which occurs in a licensed narrative is completely fair game for this wiki. It's not our job to censor what has gone on in the DWU. Our only policy on the matter currently reads:

Sexual imagery should be strictly limited to that which actually occurs within the narratives of the DWU. Think carefully if potentially offensive pictures are really necessary. Consider providing a link to the picture, and a warning of the picture's contents, rather than place it directly in the article. If you have concerns regarding the appropriateness of an image, discuss it on the relevant article talk page.our image use policy

Is that image really offensive? I mean, what do we have for nudity there? A bit of ass crack? C'mon — it's 2011. Who hasn't seen ass crack at the local supermarket? Are we really that unfamiliar girls wearing low-rise jeans? Have none of us been to a beach?

More to the point, the image is actually of narrative significance, and should be on the ep page and both characters' character pages, as well. It is a key point of Miracle Day that they had sex. Otherwise, his having to film her death has no particular emotional resonance.

I admit that the policy says that discussions on the appropriateness of imagery are invited. But this is straight out of an episode. It's not like we're talking Dalek porn or Katy Manning's Dalek shoot. Hell, Nicola Bryant's showing more cleavage in Planet of Fire than Arlene Tur is in this shot.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">23:04:08 Tue 13 Sep 2011 

It's not that I personally find the image offensive, I don't. But I do think it crosses the line of what's usually considered SFW on a public website with an unrestricted userbase. If we want to go that route that's fine, if we don't that's fine too, but before the issue gets out of hand in either direction (since there are certainly more explicit images to be found in canon) I think we should have a solid consensus and official policy in place about such things. — Rob T Firefly - Δ∇ - 04:23, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

In the spirit of compromise: Would it make everyone happy if there were a different shot from the same scene that didn't display ass crack? Or even a cropped version of the same photo? I think it would still represent "sex in the Whoniverse" just as well.

For a real-world article that actually talks about the editing of the sex scenes for the Starz vs. BBC releases (like the Wikipedia article on Dead of Night), that image might be would fighting for, but I don't know if it is here. --70.36.140.19 05:30, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Replacing the photo now would be avoiding the issue, but I really think talking it out and deciding as a community where we stand on the issue would be a lot more helpful to the wiki in the long run. If we don't get a consensus together now it'd just have to be dealt with all over again when the next borderline pic comes up. — Rob T Firefly - Δ∇ - 13:31, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with the image.

SFW…? Okay…it might be odd to find the pic of Rex and Vera shagging on a totally unrelated article, but it's on the Sex article, exactly what are you expecting to find on the article? It's illustrating the subject matter.

Wikipedia is also publicly accessible and unrestricted and you can find far more NSFW shots there than you ever could here.

This was how it was broadcast in the US, Canada and Australia, and how it will be for the home release in the UK. This isn't an unrelated image it appears within the narrative.

If we start censoring then really what's the point of adding any potentially "offensive" content to the wiki? --Tangerineduel / talk 14:09, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

This pic has just celebrated its two year anniversary on this site.

I see nothing wrong with the image, it's not like they're showing any of their nudeness. --Revan\Talk 14:13, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Sex happens in the DWU. As long as we report or picture that which actually occurred, it's not salacious. I'm curious though why this imagery has been singled out for discussion, rather than, say, the Katy Manning stuff. We've had nipple showing at Katy Manning for just over two years, and no one batted an eyelash. But here, where there's actual narrative significance to the nudity, we gotta have a big pow-wow. I honestly don't understand any cause for concern. I mean, at this point, is anyone really expecting for there to be another year of Torchwood and for that year to provide more graphic images than this one?
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">05:25:06 Thu 15 Sep 2011 

I wasn't particularly trying to "single out" this image, it just happens to be this image that sparked my interest in the wider issue of nudity on this wiki. Since the mods seem to be in agreement, perhaps someone could add a sentence or two to Tardis:image use policy to note that such things are allowed where relevant?

As for more graphic things coming up in the future, there's full-frontal nudity of Captain Jack and some human-shaped Zygons in canon already. — Rob T Firefly - Δ∇ - 19:29, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

So, in your opinion, the already-quoted bit of the image use policy doesn't allow the image? You think the language could be clearer? If you have any suggestions for clarity, I'd be interested in hearing them. I've got to rewrite anyway, if only to cite this discussion. Might as well improve the overall clarity, while I'm at it.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">11:24:29 Fri 16 Sep 2011 

Perhaps just editing that first sentence to "Sexual imagery and nudity should be strictly limited to that which actually occurs within the narratives of the DWU" would be enough to cover (sorry) the issue, since not all nudity is sexual imagery. — Rob T Firefly - Δ∇ - 13:21, September 16, 2011 (UTC)