Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Closing Time

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This page is for discussing the ways in which Closing Time doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

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• When did the Cybermen start converting whole bodies instead of just removing the brain and putting it into a cybernetic body? Was it not implied in Cyberwoman that they only started converting whole bodies in the Battle of Canary Wharf because they were losing and they needed soldiers quickly?

• The Doctor has aged some 200 years since the start of his current regeneration, but shows no signs of ageing.

Maybe he moisturised.

Time Lords age more slowly than humans. The First Doctor was around 500, and he didn't look nearly that old.

He looked 50 or 60 years old. If he was 500 then this Doctor should look about 20 years older.

We really don't know enough about how Time Lords age to say that. Maybe later bodies age more slowly. Maybe the Doctor just took efforts to prevent himself from aging much. A lot can happen in 200 years, especially when you have access to a virtually unlimited amount of technology.

River implies that she can control her aging, saying she might bring it down a bit gradually, to "freak people out". It's doubtful she means she's going to de-age herself immediately using leftover regeneration energy, but rather she is going to gradually make herself look younger. This is consistent with the fact that she looks younger in previous episodes. If that's the case, then the Doctor is probably keeping himself better preserved.

Remember Rule One.

• The Doctor sees Amy and Rory in a shop on what must be April 20th two days before he is to die. At first glance, one must assume that this is the Amy and Rory from before the events of this season; after the events of The Big Bang, but before The Impossible Astronaut. We know that the pair hadn't heard from The Doctor for two months by that time - whether or not that means their wedding, or includes any later pops by to visit we don't know. So it's entirely possible enough time would have passed to invent and market a scent that has become popular enough to warrant getting her autograph. Small problem - the Amy from before the events of this season is not acquainted with the term Petrichor. If she was, she'd have recognized it when Idiris used it. Now there's no issue with The Doctor going back a day or two to get the letters in the post in time for them to arrive a day or two ago. Heck, he got one to Canton in America, one to River on Stormcage and himself on the TARDIS, so that's scarcely a problem. However, by the 20th, Amy and Rory should have already gotten his letter and be heading off to meet him (as seen in The Impossible Astronaut). So they shouldn't even BE here. Best guess, this is the Amy and Rory from AFTER the recent series' events, who were brought back a fair period of time BEFORE they left for America, which may also explain why The Doctor bought them a new house and car; to keep themselves out of their own way.

There is nothing in the episode to suggest that the events of Closing Time take place right before the events on Lake Silencio in terms of an earth calendar. Remember the Amy and Rory the Doctor sees giving the autograph are the Amy and Rory the Doctor left on Earth - therefore they have already experienced the events of Lake Silencio. All the episode says is for the Doctor it's the day before his "death". In addition, if this episode did take place in lake April, then the events of Miracle Day would be underway. As no reference is made to that, this must take place some time after.

Actually, note the date of Craig's paper - April 19, 2011.

If post The God Complex Rory and Amy were deposited on Earth before the events of The Impossible Astronaut there would be two sets of Amy and Rorys. Both live in the UK and one Amy (the post TGC one) became famous enough to be stopped on the street by fans. It seems impossible that pre The Impossible Astronaut Amy and Rory wouldn't notice that another version of herself has become famous. Just how far off in the boonies is Leadworth? Wouldn't post TGC Amy and Rory visit Amy or Rory's families in Leadworth at some point and meet themselves?

Add to the problem the "eyewitness" kids. The implication is clearly that they are interviewed at some point later in their lives because they saw the Doctor here just before his supposed death. There are of course possible explanations around all of these points, but it does look like they legitimately didn't think the timing on this through too much.

Further consider the fact that at some point pregnant Amy is replaced by ganger Amy which means that in this case there very well could be three "Amys."

• Add to this the fact that Amy and Rory should be on their way to Utah by now, given the amount of time it would take to get to a remote location. And the Doctor should have sent the letters already, although we see him getting the envelopes from Sophie's refrigerator. True, he could have gone back in time to send them, but the whole thing seems to be convoluted. 24.117.13.108 03:58, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

The Doctor comments how difficult it is to get glazers on a Sunday, which would seem to indicate that this episode takes place from a Friday to a Sunday. April 19th 2011, however, was a Tuesday, which places further doubt on the timing. However, given that it's dark when the Doctor scans the sky for the Cyber Ship, but the shop is still open for him and Craig to return to afterwards, this would seem to indicate that the episode takes place in autumn/winter (unless the shop has really late opening hours - although the Doctor says good afternoon to Val). Also (if we're being really picky), leaves are missing from a lot of the trees in the background, which would also suggest an autumn/winter setting. This would make the most sense for the placing of this episode to fit with post TGC Amy and Rory's lives, and we would therefore have to assume the date on the paper is a production team error.

At this point, we don't know for sure that it is a production error. Given the Rory name tag issue and the number of clocks changing incorrectly from 11:59 AM to a new day, this may all be part of a larger intentional act by a the staff. Since it seems to be suggested that all time is supposed to happen at once in the final episode, this may all have been the early stages of that. So for example, events which shouldn't have been happening on April 19th are happening on April 19th.210.49.167.47 13:02, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

• When Craig is converted you can clearly hear the Cyber Conversion Unit's blades and knives cut him up but he is undamaged when he can hear Alfie.

Recycled sound effects; This type of unit is clearly different in appearance and function to the Cybus-type unit, so the same sound may be made by a different unrelated component, or it's simply there to remind the viewer what is supposed to be happening.