Howling:Could Davros ever return?
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
It's pretty much accepted by most people now that the Dalek invasion of Earth in "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" has been erased from history via falling into a Crack. So does this mean that Davros now never existed? EJA 17:29, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
well evn if he did the doc reversed the effects of the cracks when he went through them
---Prof Of Whooligy 18:26, April 5, 2011 (UTC)---
The Dalek invasion force was still erased after the universe was restored, as the world still doesn't remember it, as per recent episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures and, I believe, the forthcoming Torchwood: Miracle Day. So Davros is still gone too. EJA 21:30, April 6, 2011 (UTC)
Miracle Day isn't out yet, and I don't remember any episode of SJA where they talked about the cracks, or encountered someone who doesn't remember the Dalek invasion. Even if people are surprised by the existence of aliens, that doesn't mean anything. During the 3rd Doctor's era, modern-day Earth was invaded all the time, and today, with Torchwood and the Sarah Jane Adventures, there are still many alien invasions. Something that is constantly talked about in Doctor Who is that people are willing to ignore evidence that points to the existence of aliens, even if it is staring them in the face. In The Big Bang, the Doctor restored the universe, which would include the Dalek invasion. And Davros can definitely return. If you watch the classic series, then you know that Davros dies in almost every episode that he is in. He always come back in another episode with some excuse as to how he survived. The crucible probably had an escape pod, or an emergency teleporter, or temporal shift, or something that allowed Davros to escape before the crack erased the invasion anyway.Icecreamdif 20:56, April 7, 2011 (UTC)
Since Prisoner Zero escaped through a crack to another point in space (and possibly time), I have no reason to believe that Davros could not have done it. Gallifrey102 10:16, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
I'm sure I've read somewhere that Torchwood: Miracle Day is supposed to take place in a world where the big alien invasions of the past, i.e. the Dalek attack, have been completely forgotten by the people of Earth. This would confirm that it is still gone.
It is a big thing for RTD to need to write a way around what must seem a narrative obstacle created by the person he left to take over Doctor Who. But, I trust him. We've seen some of the greatest episodes with him Gallifrey102 10:16, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
In the SJA story "The Vault of Secrets", people who believe in alien life are in a distinct minority, not taken seriously by most of society, which simply wouldn't be possible after the Dalek invasion. Sarah Jane is also now working to prevent humans finding solid evidence of aliens, such as preventing a probe sent to Mars from relaying pictures of a Martian pyriamid back to Earth. There could be absolutely no doubt that the Daleks were aliens, so why exactly is she doing this - unless time has been reset and the invasion wiped from history. Hmmm, I wonder how they explain all the global destruction and civilian casualties (assuming they still happen)? EJA 21:14, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
Have you ever seen Everything Changes? In that episode, Rhys' explanation for the Battle of Canary Wharf was drugs in the water supply. Its a common theme in Doctor Who that Humans refuse to believe in alien life even when evidence of its existance is staring them in the face. And those pyramids were probably Osiran, unless the Ice Warriors also built pyramids on Mars.Icecreamdif 00:58, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
I quote The Doctor 'You're happy to believe in something invisible, but when it's staring you in the face - nope, can't see it! There's a scientific explanation for that: you're thick.' Gallifrey102 10:16, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
Hallucinations don't bomb entire continents and kill thousands of people worldwide. The situation in "Doomsday" was an isolated incident; the Dalek invasion was global, involving everybody. You cannot dismiss it as a mass hallucination. You just can't. The Weeping Angels in "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone" didn't come back after the Reset, so why should the Daleks? I reckon that after the Reset, among the things that were still erased were the Racnoss Queen, Donna Noble, the people behind the Immortality Gate project, and the bus in "Planet of the Dead." Wilf probably doesn't remember the Doctor, and never had a granddaughter. Oh, and I should add the people who resurrected the Master too. Even though the events which led to the Tenth Doctor's regeneration into the Eleventh have been unwritten from time, the Doctor's still in his eleventh incarnation because he's outside of normal time and his personal history is unaffected by any space/time cataclysms. But as far as everyone else is concerned, Series 4 and the Specials didn't happen. EJA 21:00, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
I've only just thought that 'if something can be remembered, it can come back.' If The Doctor remembers Davros, which he does, then he's probably been ressurected, somehow...
Gallifrey102 21:51, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
Assuming that any previous episodes apart from The Next Doctor and Stolen Earth/Journey's End is just ridiculous speculation. Should we also assume that all of the alien invasions in Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures were erased. Or all the invasions during the 3rd Doctor's exile? The Doctor specififically stated that the Pandorica contained molecules from the universe as it was before the time cracks. After he used the Pandorica to restore the universe, it was restored to its original condition. People probably assumed that the planets in the sky were mass hallucinations, but came up with some other explanation for the deaths. People died in Doomsday too, but that was still considered to be mass hallucination. I'm sure they came up with some explanation for the massive deaths. Entire continents weren't bombed, you're thinking of Parting of the Ways. Also, keep in mind, BURRPS wasn't considered crazy just because they believed in aliens. Sarah Jane also considered them crazy, but she clearly knew that aliens were real.Icecreamdif 01:57, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Although, The Doctor did say that Big Bang Two would 'reboot' the universe, so I'm generally taking it as a reboot of the continuity.
Gallifrey102 08:48, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
It makes sense what Icecreamdif is saying. In Children of Earth people reverted to not believeing in aliens and that was BEFORE the 21st century invasons were erased by the time field cracks. People just refuse to accept it. Also altering time on such a massive scale could cause universe collapsing paradoxes to occur (hey now we know why the universe was collpsing) i.e. Donna never leaving the TARDIS and the Doctor never regenerating into his 11th incarnation. The only way the universe could have been saved is if these paradoxes never happened which must mean that the alterations to the timeline never happened which means that the timeline was restored to the way it was before the cracks began to change it (try saying that in one breath). It makes perfect sense Gallifrey102. Do your research and then try to explain it. The concusion is that Davros will return eventualy along with the Daleks. Time Guardian 10:03, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Who said that when? It's been a couple of years since I saw Children of Earth, but I seem to recall that a significant portion of people DID believe in aliens, to the point of crises of faith. 94.8.120.120 19:34, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
Even if Davros can't return, Moffat will find of bringing him back anyway. We can't really say anything until we've seen the new season.
Gallifrey102 10:06, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
People would've taken photos of the Daleks and their spaceships, and recorded them on film. If they recorded them, they can't dismiss them as hallucinations. 195.188.243.175 13:32, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
There were also "ghosts" on TV in Army of Ghosts, and there must have been recordings of the Master Race, but Sarah Jane was able to have Mr. Smith come up with some excuse for that. UNIT, Sarah Jane, or Torchwood probably invented some excuse to explain away the Dalek invasion, and most people probably didn't believe it. Even if people did accept alien invasions after that, that doesn't mean that the invasion was erased. In the Sarah Jane Adventures, people didn't think that BURPSS was crazy just because they believed in aliens. Sarah Jane and Haresh both thought that BURPSS was crazy, even though they had both accepted the existance of alien life. BURPSS was considered crazy because there name sounded like "burps," and they acted crazy. The episode doesn't actually prove that people who believe in alien life are a small minority, it just proves that most people still believe that most people who claim that they have encountered alien life are crazy.Icecreamdif 18:20, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Take Wilfred Mott for example, he believed in intelligent non-terrestrial life forms even before the Titanic Crisis.
Gallifrey102 18:40, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Could Davros return? Absolutely! Will he? I doubt the writers and producers even know at this point. It will certainly be interesting to see how if he does! Rest In Peace Sarah Jane \ Talk to me! 14:13, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
Since Moffat said the New Imperial Daleks aren't gone and will return, it's not unreasonable to believe that somehow Davros will come with them, but just in Season XXXIII.
Gallifrey102 17:17, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
Davros is definetly going to return, whether or not the time crack should have erased him. It doesn't look like he's coming back in series 6, but he'll come back eventually. Most Doctors so far have met him once.Icecreamdif 22:00, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
Of course, if he did survive the Uprising on the Crucible, then he would have done so by use of an emergancy temporal shift. Perhaps this took him back into the Last Great Time War? Who knows. Although if he did, that would mean he'll be reunited with The Master, which could make an interesting plot line. I image, Steven Moffat has at least considered that, but probably has it filed away in his mind...
Gallifrey102 22:18, April 20, 2011 (UTC)
Davros may have used a temporal shift to escape, although there are also a million other ways he could have escaped. If he did use a temporal shift, it probably didn't take him back to the Time War. Look what using a temporal shift to enter the Time War did to Caan. Davros wouldn't be much of a villain if he was insane like Caan was. The Master mand Davros are both great villains, but I'm not sure if a story involving the two working together would really work. Obviously, they would both be spending the entire story planning to double-cross eachother, and I think they're both smart enough to know that they can't trust the other one.Icecreamdif 00:21, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
Still, I'm sure he's out there and plotting his revenge, even if he isn't coming back any time soon. Perhaps the New Paradigm are trying to find him and exterminate him.
Gallifrey102 11:11, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
