Howling:Silence planned library
Okay is it just me or does anyone else think that the silence could of planned for the events in the library because think about it how would the easiest why to get a timelords body is ... to digitize. Second what happens if you dont look at a silence directly but look at its shadow? 71.103.145.131 03:02, October 19, 2011 (UTC) 
sorry that was me Cory Jaynes talk to me 03:14, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
Are you suggesting that the Vashta Nerada are actually the Silence's shadows? If that is what you're suggesting, then I think that you're wrong. The Doctor knew what the Vashta Nerada were, and although it may be possible that the Vashta Nerada are actually somebody's rationalization for shadows that apparently don't have a source, none of the facts seem to support this. For one, the shadows often appeared as if they were being cast by one of their victims(or soon to be victims). This wouldn't happen if they were just the Silence's shadow. Also, the food was eaten as soon as it was thrown into the shadows, though I suppose that you could argue that the Silence ate it, and we all forgot about it. Still, I don't really see how the Silence could gain control of dead bodies the way that the Vashta Nerada did, and even if the Vastha Nerada were just working for the Silence, then why would they just stop killing after the Doctor made a deal with them? Besides, you'd think that River would mark herself if there were Silence there. If the Silence really wanted to digitize the Doctor, then it would be much easier to fly a starship into orbit of whatever planet the Doctor happens to be on, and use the ships T-mat or teleporters to get him. Still, you seem to be confused about the Silence's motives. They don't really care what happens to his body. It was River who wanted to destroy the body after he was "dead," but the Silence just want him dead so that he won't answer the question at Trenzalore. Being dead would prevent him from doing that whether or not he had a body. Icecreamdif talk to me 04:08, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
icecreamdif, i think what cory jaynes meant by the shadow bit had nothing to do with the vashta nerada being the silence's shadows (i don't think so, anyway. please correct me if i'm wrong) but was just asking what would happen if we saw the shadows of the silence as an extra question on the side. by the way, it's entirely plausible that the shadow could still be seen as a shadow is made up of blocked light instead of anything that's actualy part of the silence in itself which could be erased from the viewer's memory. Imamadmad talk to me 06:38, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
That probably does make more sense. Since the shadow is not actually the Silence, but just blocked light, then you would probably remember it. Same as how they could remember hearing the Silence knocking on the doors in The Wedding of River Song, since they couldn't see them at the time. Of course, seeing a Silence's shadow would be pretty pointless unless you already knew there were Silence around-you would see the shadow, look to see what was casting it, be shocked to see a Silence, look away, and forget about the Silence.Icecreamdif talk to me 06:56, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
I can't help thinking that all this makes a good argument for the name of the leader of the Silence being: Steven Moffat! --89.240.241.19 14:12, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
Okay so one i was saying that while there could be vashta nerada the silence could be mistaken as vashta nerada ... two river was wearing a spacesuit so she could of been marking it in the journal three umm i never said the doctor being digitilized i meant river who was that data could of then been uploaded into a flesh for a hostage Cory Jaynes talk to me 03:19, October 20, 2011 (UTC)
Vashta Nerada eats flesh, there. Moreover, humans are programmed to kill Silence in subconscious state so the entire scenario of perceiving Silence as a threat and digitizing people for safety is impossible. Moffatt probably just thought it's cool to reuse astronaunt suit and the word silence, he couldn't possibly plan River's origin that far back seeing that there were no indication that he would be the showrunner anytime soon (unless of course, Moffatt was going to secretly poison and kill RTD and forge a will in his name). If anything, River was probably going to be Donna's daughter or something (ginger, met Donna, "oh"-ed Donna after hearing her name, and if originally designed to be the mutant Timelady as well) --222.166.181.205 17:13, November 3, 2011 (UTC)
Uhhh. I don't think that the showrunner gets to name there successor in their will. I'm pretty sure the BBC works that out. Either way, I doubt that Moffat had any real plans about River's backstory yet at that point. He probably knew that Donna was leaving at the end of that season anyway. River clearly knew that Donna was leaving, so even if Moffat didn't know the details about the metacrisis and her losing her memory, he must have at least known that she was leaving in a less than pleasent way.Icecreamdif talk to me 19:49, November 3, 2011 (UTC)
River as Donna's daughter would work whether Donna leaves or not as long as Donna still has a functioning ovary. Keep in mind that Donna is half-Timelady by the end of her storyline, and River (in addition to being ginger and feisty like Donna) could understand extremely complex Timelord technology and was clearly also extremely knowledgeable about Timelord physiology (even if she wasn't planned to be a mutant Timelady at that point), and the Doctor rarely disclose this much information to his companions, and it would be even more odd for the Doctor to tell the companion what would kill him considering that he would probably choose to risk his life to save them rather than the other way.
Donna was only part Time Lord for an hour at most, and even then she was only part Time Lord in that she had a Time Lord consciousness inside her brain. Biologically she was still completely human, which was why her brain couldn't handle a Time Lord consciousness, and then the Doctor erased that anyway so she's fully human now. Anyway, this is a pretty stupid thing to argue over, since we know that River is not Donna's daughter, whether or not it would be possible.Icecreamdif talk to me 19:56, November 9, 2011 (UTC)
