Howling:Who is River Song? Place you final bets now!!
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
So this saturday with Series 6 episode 7, the mid-series finale airing, we will find out who River Song really is. So I've created this page just for a bit of fun, for people to place their final guess of who she is before it is aired on saturday and see if anyone actually gets it right! This page is not for discussion of her identity because that is begin done on other posts. This is to simply state who you think she might be so we can see you were right. There are many theories out there, please try to refrain to just one in your post. You can word your post like mine below keeping it short and simple. Sorry no prize if you get it right, just your fair share of awesomeness! :P Timster1987 02:57, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I think she is Amy's daughter somehow infused with tardis power. Timster1987 02:57, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I think she is Amy's daughter who is a timelord created by the Silence somehow. Luigi board
I think she is fully and only human (not the girl who began to regenerate). Beyond that, I don't know. 89.241.77.204 07:34, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
i think she is a normal woman that one day got picked up by the doctor and has become deeply involved with his life and one day she killed a man ----Whooligist 09:06, June 1, 2011 (UTC)----
I'm going with Whooligist, it's no one's daughter, no timelord, what's special about her is what she will do not how she was born.UnicornandtheWasp 09:10, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
im going with Whoologist and Unincornandwasp. she is going to be or is involved in something big that will shock us as it didnt ocur to us that it could have been her and it wont be obvious. if the episode before had such a big reveal as 'Ganger amy' then river is going to be huge 217.23.232.194 09:45, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I think she's Amy's daughter and the Doctors wife Saxon 3 12:00, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I think she will turn out to be the daughter of Verity Neuman and hence the great-granddaughter of John Smith, aka the Doctor during his Chameleon Arch phase. Just to play out waaaay in left field. Boblipton 12:55, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I'm going with someone who is NOT Amy's daughter of the Doctor's wife. There the obvious answers so it is obviously not them and the little regenerating girl has been made out to be Amy's baby since last weeks cliffhanger. Last time I checked 100% Humans do not regenerate.82.11.57.232 13:34, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I will throw a curve here: River is a semi-FOB-watched (reformed) Master. Only he fixed it so he/she knows who she is.
I think this whole idea of everyone thinking River is the doctors wife and amys daughter has been planned well by Moffat. Moffat has said on a number of occasions he reads sites like this and doctorwhotv to see peoples reactions and theories. I think he has (well I hope) planned all this set up to make everyone think River is (Amy's daughter, doctors wife and murderer) and I think he will just stun us by revealing she is something that no-one guessed (or hardly guessed) thats why I think she will just be someone is is deeply involved in his life. -- Michael Downey 15:03, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I stand by what I posted back in April. River Song is the same person as the only other companion the Doc has met in non-linearly-Mel. She either regenerated somehow, or had cosmetic surgery at some point. The reason the Sixth Doctor regenerated at the beginning of Time and the Rani was that Mel poisoned his carrot juice, accounting for the good man that River murdered. You will all find out that I am right in 3 days, though I have to wait another week, since I don't live in England.69.140.34.6 16:56, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
I agree, as I did back in April. The evidence is clear - Mel and River both have curly hair, and both are known to be screamers. 187.78.119.32 17:03, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
On the off-chance that the two anons above are wrong, and River Song is not Mel, I'm going to guess that River is just an ordinary human, who has been meeting the Doctor in a non-linear order for most, if not all, of her life. In A Good Man Goes to War, we will probably learn who River killed, though I don't have any guesses as to who that could be. I doubt that River is Amy's daughter, because that would be stupid, and I doubt that she is the Doctor's wife, because I don't see how they could get married if they meet in a non-linear order.>Icecreamdif 17:29, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
As Ace immediately perceived, Mel was a doughnut. River is not a doughnut. Therefore River is not Mel. 2.96.18.149 17:41, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
She's the TARDIS (the biggest screamer in the whole show, beating even Mel) and the best man she's ever known is going to be Rory. Agonaga 19:14, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
She's the Doctor's wife, but probably just a random woman who met him. However, there's also a chance that she's the Astronaut that killed the Doctor, and the little girl was a different one. After all, the little girl appeared not to have the ability to shoot, or she'd probably have taken out a Silent. This also explains the fact that the little girl lost the suit (which was then taken apart) and was scared of it prior to her losing it, the fact that River's gunfire from Day of the Moon looked similar (as far as I can recall) to the bolts fired by the Astronaut, and River's killing of "the best man she's ever known". Middle Eye (Talk) 19:24, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
On a side note, now that Amy's nausea in THE IMPOSSIBLE ASTRONAUT has been revealed to be morning sickness, what are we meant to surmise from River's nausea later in the same episode? Also morning sickness? Has she been replaced too? Boblipton 20:38, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
Not sure where I am going with this, but she is a time traveller and could have killed any "good man" at any point in history only to be tried and sentenced imprisoned when she got back to her own time. so her killing the doctor could be true only for them to find out he was a ganger and she subsequently gets released - mmmmm plausible The Dalek feared here when she was scanned. They would be able to read who she killed from scanning her and realising if she could kill such a good man then they would realise how ultimately dangerous she could be - yeah but killing her would make them ultimately feared She can speak ancient Gallifreyan - I can ask for a beer in about fifteen languages (but not much more than that) so surely she can say "Hello Sweetie" in several too like i say not sure where I am going with this just thinking a few things out loud, But I dont think she is a future version of any other character we have already met.Tooty1967 10:27, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
A screamer who knows The Doctor's name...must be Susan! Gallifrey102 20:16, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
Just based on the fact that River says she's a screamer, she could be almost any of the Doctor's female companions. Besides, all the flirting and kissing would come across as kind of creepy if it turned out that River was the Doctor's granddaughter.Icecreamdif 21:56, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
Well, all I have to say to that is that Luke Skywalker did it and she was his sister! Gallifrey102 21:58, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
I don't follow Star Wars, but didn't they not know they were siblings? River at least would have to know that she was Susan.Icecreamdif 22:55, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
Also, DW isn't Star Wars, for which we can all be grateful. 89.241.73.69 17:44, June 3, 2011 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be interesting is she was Rose? (Unsigned)
Interesting but more than a little unlikely. 89.241.73.69 23:52, June 3, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, it's amy's daughter. O-M-G. 212.159.18.224 18:46, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
So if Melody/River can regenerate (end of Day of the moon), how come we see her die without trying to regenerate in Forest of the dead?
Because there's only so many things a Time Lord's body can stand, it can regenerate if there's a body to regenerate, but not if there's not. Saxon 3 20:37, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
As i recall, her comment in Forest of the Dead was "You'll burn up both your hearts, and don't think you'll regenerate!", which clearly also referred to herself. Wibbly-Wobbly 21:12, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
I just reverted JRF1994's change, because it somehow removed all of the whitespace and added an extra space to the beginning, which turned the whole thing into an unreadable one-line box. I hope his change didn't also add anything substantive, but it's nearly impossible to tell. (I did check that the last comment, from Wibbly-Wobbly, was still the last comment....) --99.8.228.227 04:04, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
For the Star Wars connection: After Luke discovers that Leia is his sister, they never snog again. They also avoid talking about it, and Leia goes whole-heartedly after Han. Which seems to make things realistic, if still unpleasant.
Until Leia implies, in Jedi, that she knew before Luke told her. Why did Lucas write that? I know, he was thinking some kind of new-agey quasi-mystical point about women just knowing the truth and men having to quest to discover it and all, but of all of the truths he could have used to make that point, why not, say, the fact that Kenobi's spirit still watches over them? By using that one, he's telling us that Leia wanted her brother, but only as long as he didn't know they were siblings, which is even worse than if it were just incest. --99.8.228.227 04:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
So I was right, as were a few other people! She's part timelord cos she was conceived in the tardis! WACK!! 110.174.99.171 04:24, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Well, being conceived in the TARDIS wouldn't be enough to make her part Time Lord, but it was enough to give Kovarian and friends the starting point they needed to do so. --76.254.25.49 05:14, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
I am relieved she turned out not to be Mel. 187.113.104.99 05:06, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
I told you River wasn't a doughnut. 89.240.251.13 05:49, June 5, 2011 (UTC) Actually, that's not quite true. She was Mel(ody) after all ! 187.113.104.99 19:49, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
Long Post: I honestly found this to be quite obvious. This also concerns what may yet be revealed. I just recently (around the beginning of this season, episode-wise) speculated that she was Amy's daughter. The similarity of River and Pond was just too huge to me. I did catch, though, that River Song was not her true name. Really glad that turned out to be true! She also seemed to know Amy just a bit too much (she gave Amy the Doctor's then-blank diary, which was her own).
Concerning the Time-Lady esque being, ever since her appearance she's been too big a part of the storyline, seemingly more-so than Amy, possibly more than Rose even (who played with time as the Bad Wolf and broke through dimensions). This, apparently, means that we've been seeing River/Melody throughout the entire season. Also, seeing a girl regenerate in the streets at a seemingly random point and being so strong indicated we'd have another Time Lady in the show. We've ruled out the normal existence of others with Galifrey being sealed again, and she was way too young to be Jenny. I really do like how these inferences turned out to be correct! I love looking for hidden things like this that would have hints but nothing more (you have to have the story be as close to a unified whole as possible).
spoilers… We've also seen the Doctor and River a bit too lovey-dovey, and she knew his Galifreyan name. The Doctor's already pushed himself away from being too involved with a human, so it makes sense she's a Time Lady. But, more than that… she would be the only modern possibility for a wife. If indeed Jenny has returned in A Good Man Goes to War and it's not just a name coincidence, then we'd have a bit of a family of Time Lord/Ladies traveling together. I also suspect she kills the Doctor. Or, at least, some version of him. Either at beginning of her life with that army, leading to the 12th incarnation, or a Ganger doctor. It might have been her as a young child in the spacesuit who apparently killed the Doctor dead. It would make sense, as the militant group at the end of the most recent episode was training her to be a weapon to kill the Doctor.
I am the Lhikan!(TaLk)634 05:59, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
Other than the name, which isn't exactly a rare one, we've still no reason to connect the Jenny of A Good Man Goes to War with the Jenny of The Doctor's Daughter. Admittedly, it's not outright impossible that they're the same but we'd need more than that before we were justified in linking them 89.240.251.13 06:28, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
Well, until this season I was thinking she might seduce the Doctor with that hallucinogenic lipstick. However, judging by the end of The Day of the Astronaut, it seems to give him hives. As for being the daughter of Verity Newman, well, John Smith wasn'the Doctor. He was a human. And I said it was way out in left field. Boblipton 09:06, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
There's a minor(ish) mystery left over after A Good Man Goes to War, among several major ones: When did Melody Pond adopt the name River Song? The leaf embroidered by Lorna Bucket rendered her name as River Song but the River who appeared at the end of the episode was already using that name and knew the leaf would reveal who she was. That suggests to me that a younger Melody Pond will visit the Gamma Forest and be given her new name there. Lorna Bucket also said that, as a little girl, she'd met the Doctor in the Gamma Forest. Although the details might be filled in by dialogue (most of what we know of the Gamma Forest has been established in dialogue), it's also possible we'll see more of the forest, and maybe the young Lorna, later on. 2.96.24.117 11:29, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
One thing I really want to know is how learning Melody/River has Time Lady DNA causes the Doctor to remember about the little girl the Silence had. Judging by his reaction to this I dought he know she was a Time Lady. Also how DO the Silence fit in to this.
- Please sign your posts with a -- and four tildes.
- Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that the Doctor was thinking about the little girl when he saw Melody's gene markers and flashed back to discussing the little girl breaking out of the spacesuit. He suspects Melody/River is the little girl. (Of course that doesn't necessarily mean he's right; Moffat's had the Doctor be wrong before, and even used that to manipulate the fans. But it comes the simplest hypothesis, until we know more.) --99.185.247.66 13:17, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- But remember, River was with the Doctor when they said the little girl must have superhuman strength. River saw the spacesuit with The Doctor and was genuinley intrigued by it. So if the girl is River Song, why doesn't she remember the Space Suit?! Saxon 3 14:16, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- She probably did remember the suit -- from the 9-year-old girl's perspective. She'd remember what she'd experienced of it, breaking out of it, etc. She wouldn't, then, have had the time, the instruments or the knowledge to appreciate its technology. Given the chance to analyse in detail something she only remembered as a sort of bogeyman, of course she was intrigued! -- 2.96.24.117 15:21, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- When has River ever displayed superhuman strength? Although it seems very likely the little girl is River, they've got some plot-tidying to do before they can make that connection. Perhaps she had superhuman strength -because- she was in the suit? Or maybe we're making the wrong connection. Also... I'm still saying River is the TARDIS, for three reasons: being born in the TARDIS isn't enough to make her have any Time Lord properties; the Doctor and the TARDIS both want to be able to talk to (and snog) each other again; the Doctor saying "it's mine" (and then covering it up by saying he meant his crib). Of course, either I'm wrong, or River doesn't know she's the TARDIS, because she lacks all the time perceptions and instincts the TARDIS had. Agonaga 16:23, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- the doctor wasn't really covering up what he said by stating he meant the cot. the pause was so the audience thought he meant the baby.
- Did anyone notice that ten minutes into the episode River tells Rory that its her birthday. So in a way Moffet tells us who River is early on the episode. 0.O Lwhovianl 19:38, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- There are still quite a few unanswered questions left.
- 1) When River is telling the Doctor who she is, she points to the writing on the cot. But what could the writing say ? Obviously not "River Song". I'm guessing it says something like "Hello Sweetie" which would explain how River knew how to write it in Gallifreyan. Can anyone confirm this ?
- 2) Amy gets stomach cramps after seeing the Silence, and we know now these were caused by her pregnancy. River also got the same cramps. I am wondering if River was also pregnant at that time. If so when would her baby have been born ? I'm guessing here some time between Demons Run and the Big Bang. She certainly would have wanted to hide the baby after seeing what happened with Amy.
- 3) Why is young River taken to the Silence in the 1960's ? Maybe because they know the Doctor will more or less wipe them out in 1969, thus they will be more motivated to kill him ? 187.113.104.99 19:46, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- The Doctor is reading the leaf, not the Gallifreyan writing. Amy and Rory can't see that (because the leaf is inside the cot) so they start with the Gallifreyan, then River directs their attention to the leaf.
- I believe that River kills the Doctor on the beach successfully, because they refer to the Doctor as a good man, in the episode When a good man goes to war, also river said she was in prison for killing a very good man. 75.4.30.226 20:14, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I wondered about that ... but in The Impossible Astronaut, the first thing River did after seeing the Astronaut shoot the Doctor the second time was to fire her gun at it several times (with no result). If it was her past self, why would she want to kill herself at this point, and thus erase the rest of her existence, including (I assume) the good bits with the Doctor?
- Although the next thing she does after unsuccessfully shooting the Astronaut is to murmur "Of course..." 59.167.244.130 03:05, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
- But the fact that River is in prison now seems less likely to me she does kill the Doctor. The fact the clerics can offer a pardon for her actions with the Angels implies that she is imprisoned by them (or by a force allied to them). Yet the clerics also want to kill the Doctor. Why imprison somebody for committing the crime you want them to commit? And then, why didn't the clerics on theByzantium turn on the Doctor?86.160.125.225 21:18, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
- A less than monolithic Church structure? I suspect that the Ood being in the credits indicate this is a two-part -- at least! story and we have yet to see River in action. It is quite possible that she escaped from prison to time travel back to commit the crime she has already been imprisoned for! Boblipton 21:55, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
