Forum:A History of the Universe / AHistory / Unhistory - the same book or seperate?

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Should the reference books A History of the Universe, AHistory and Unhistory be considered one and the same book in different editions, or should they be considered seperate entities?

Important factors here to note are that the books are all written by Lance Parkin and they all cover the exact same subject, although expanded each time to accomodate the series as it went on. Lars Pearson joined as co-writer in the 3rd edition of AHistory, staying for all following editions, and is also listed on Unhistory.

Now, A History of the Universe was published in 1996, and AHistory saw its publication in 2006, 10 years later. The specific AHistory title saw further publications in 2007, 2012 and 2012-2013, with a digital version in 2014. In 2017, a digital only book with the title Unhistory came about, however in 2018, AHistory was once more put to use for 3 books, two of which shared a stylisation, and a further book in 2019 with that same stylisation. The one 2018 variant with a different stylisation was digitalised in 2023.

One could suggest that the 2006 AHistory book having "(1st edition)" on the cover would indicate that A History of the Universe is a seperate book, but further down the line, this is being mocked up, with the actual 4th edition listed as "(2012-2013 update)" while what would be the 5th edition is split into 3 seperate books, all listed as "(4th edition)" but with "Volume 1", "Volume 2" and "Volume 3" added, all 3 of which share the same stylisation cover, while the 2018 edition that got digitalised in 2023 is listed as "(2018 update)" and has the same cover as all pre-2018 editions, a cover also shared by Unhistory.

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What do we do about this? Do we cover them as one and the same book, or should they be seperated? And if the latter, do we seperate each edition as well?

Danniesen ☎ 07:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Off to bed with me for now, will consider the rest later. But Unhistory is clearly distinct from the other two, the cover even notes as much. So that's a nonstarter. I'm prima facie skeptical of merging A History and AHistory, but will think on it. (And I suggest that Erasing Sherlock might be the obvious first step towards the other issue. But again, just brief thoughts given in the span of 5 minutes.) Najawin ☎ 08:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Anyone else have any thoughts? Danniesen ☎ 21:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Gah. Sorry, forgot about this. My immediate gut reaction was that they were separate series, but I wanted to do more research before commenting. And lo and behold, per the Amazon preview, in the 2018 update to AHistory:

The first-published version of this series (A History of the Universe, Virgin, 1996)

So I think it's clear that Parkin considers them one and the same series. Najawin ☎ 23:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

As a Dr Who wiki, whether or not something is BBC-approved is significant to us. It would be an over-conflation to say that the AHistory books are updated editions of A History, because the latter was official Doctor Who media and the formers weren't and so had to be formatted differently. A while back, I made A History of the Universe (short story) and Gallifrey - Notes on the Planet's Background (short story) as pages for in-universe content within A History, and one of them isn't even by Parkin. I suggest that this topic indicates the utility of a series page for the AHistory series (and the arguable placement of A History in said series), rather than a merging. TheChampionOfTime ☎ 02:54, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

To Najawin: Just as you say on Amazon that they're listed as one and the same, I myself was looking through the "Timelash" website, because I have an ongoing project of updating all the reference books (because the original wiki editors didn't care much about that) and when I got to A History of the Universe, I saw exactly what you saw on Amazon, that they are listed as the same book in new editions (bar the digital ones, which they for some reason don't do). Which is what brought me to this Forum post. Danniesen ☎ 09:51, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

NGL, being able to physically hold two books and observing that each one has a lot of content not in the other, with different covers and dimensions, different publishers, and even different titles, makes it clear that these are, in fact, not the same book.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

10:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Different publishers has nothing to say. Many books have different publishers if they have been published a couple of times. Also, paperback and hardbacks almost always have different covers. We also even have a few examples of books on this very wiki that have been retitled later on, but are in fact the same. Danniesen ☎ 12:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, my comment was not that on Amazon they were listed as the same. It's that the introduction written by Parkin says what I quoted. So Parkin, in his own words, says they're the same. Najawin ☎ 16:27, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Them being published by different publishers was one of many reasons why these works are distinct.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

16:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

But that's not how it works. Hardbacks of some books are sometimes published by a different publisher than the paperback versions of the same book. Danniesen ☎ 22:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

To Najawin: Ah gotcha. I misunderstood. Nevertheless that further indicates they are the same book. Just updated versions. Danniesen ☎ 22:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I want to emphasize that listings from Amazon are a sketchy source of info and we shouldn't be using them as strong evidence in the first place. Some of the discussion here can be found at Talk:SLEEPY (novel). I've also seen them miscategorize books occasionally, but this is rarer. I think the Parkin quote is evidence, though perhaps not overwhelming. I think whatever Amazon does on their end is largely useless for us. Najawin ☎ 23:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I know Amazon is sketchy. Indeed their release dates for stuff tend to be made up sometimes. Although, certain areas I tend to believe them on, for example, I’ve never seen them write a wrong synopsis or list an incorrect writer, so if there's a quote on there they say is from Parkin himself, I’ll believe it. Danniesen ☎ 07:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

No, the quote is inside the preview, that would be legit. But Amazon placing them inside the same series in Amazon's own sorting system is what I don't think should move our needle at all. An academic point, but one that exists nevertheless. Najawin ☎ 19:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, if anyone happen to own any of the books, that would be a help to solve this. Danniesen ☎ 08:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I checked AHistory Volume 3, and its acknowledgements section had this to say:

"A great many people have been involved with this book. This is the fifth version. The first - The Doctor Who Chronology - was produced by Seventh Door Fanzines. It covered the television series. The second - A History of the Universe - was published by Virgin in 1996, and covered the television series plus the New and Missing Adventures up to Happy Endings and The Sands of Time respectively. It proved very popular. Nearly ten years on, the third version was published by Mad Norwegian Press, and covered roughly twice as many stories as the Virgin edition. This is the second update of that."Lance Parkin

I also checked A History of the Universe (the "second version") and Parkin does not mention Seventh Door Fanzines in his introduction there. IMO the fact that different versions of the same timeline-making project have different remits, and shift things around as new stories change things through the decades, means that A History of the Universe and AHistory do not overlap enough to merge (as well as the fact that the former is primarily an official in-universe book and the latter isn't). TheChampionOfTime ☎ 12:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, also, Lars Pearson wrote half of AHistory. Like, AHistory is half his baby. There's a fair bit of it that isn't coming from Parkin's earlier work. TheChampionOfTime ☎ 12:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as I said in the post, Lars Pearson joined this line of books around the 3rd version of AHistory and has stuck along in subsequent versions.

But that is interesting. That does cement that they are at least part of the same series. And you named a book that I was not even aware of. Danniesen ☎ 17:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Found it: Danniesen ☎ 17:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Sadly, this book was nowhere to find except a listing on Amazon. And even then, it barely gives any info about it. Danniesen ☎ 17:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I found it mentioned on Parkins's own website, although that's as far as it goes. A mention, as well as a different release year to Amazon's. Danniesen ☎ 17:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

This interview contains some potentially relevant information: https://doctorwho.org.nz/archive/tsv48/lanceparkin.html.

For what it's worth, I think this series would be best covered with each of its instalments having their own pages, alongside an overall series page listing them all. Bongo50 ☎ 20:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Are you including the specific Ahistory title in that statement? As in, should every edition of specifically Ahistory also have their own pages? Danniesen ☎ 21:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm less decided on that, but I think yes as I feel it would potentially be clearer. Bongo50 ☎ 21:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I managed to find a review of The Doctor Who Chronology which offered a few bits of information, and managed to build a page about it that at least looks presentable. Apart from a few mentions on the Internet here and there, which are very few and far apart, this wiki is now the only site that covers that edition. Danniesen ☎ 22:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Unhistory is definitely seperate IMO. AHistory and A history of the Universe I’m not sure though, beyond the fact the later editions aren’t licensed so any narrative sources in them wouldn’t count Thien Valdram ☎ 13:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I do think I have to agree that Bongo's suggestion is a good one. The Doctor Who Chronology, A History of the Universe, AHistory and Unhistory being seperate books, but part of a series. Danniesen ☎ 15:55, 13 September 2024 (UTC)