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| == Spoiler ==
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| [[File:The Doctor's Death Data.jpg|thumb|250px|right|The Doctor finds out he will die at Lake Silencio. ([[DW]]: ''[[Let's Kill Hitler]]'')]]
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| It isn't a spoiler, the name of the lake is revealed, in [[Let's Kill Hitler]], when the Doctor finds out he's going to die. --[[User:MrThermomanPreacher|MrThermomanPreacher]] 15:49, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
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| Restored.--{{User:Skittles the hog/sig}} 16:13, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
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| The page has been deleted again, this time without a reason why. Could Mini-Mitch please explain why he deleted this page? --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 14:56, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| :Because it's a lake, that's all we know. People keep on adding "River Song killed the Doctor here", which we have '''no''' proof of. So i deleted it to stop the mindless speculation being added. [[User:Mini-mitch|MM]]/<small>[[User talk:Mini-mitch|Want to talk?]]</small> 14:59, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| Restored the page. You can't delete a page just because it is vandalised.--{{User:Skittles the hog/sig}} 15:06, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| :@MM:It's a lake, that's all we know. Therefore, we need to create a page to place that info on.
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| :@MM:River is confirmed to kill the Doctor. The death of the Doctor is a fixed point in time and space. So we know that the Doctor will die; we also know that River Song will kill him. Since the Doctor was killed at the lake, we therefore know that River killed (will kill) the Doctor at this lake. We '''have''' proof that River will kill the Doctor at the lake, and it is mindless to remove that ''correct'' information.
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| :@StH: Thanks for the restoration. :) --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 15:08, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| == River? ==
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| What proof does ''anyone'' have that River Song was not the astronaut? The astronaut killed the Doctor at the Lake--FACT. We know that River killed the Doctor--FACT. Therefore, River is the astronaut that killed the Doctor--FACT. What "proof" is there otherwise? --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 15:24, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| Lack of negative oproof is not the same as positive proof.[[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 15:36, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| :Yeah, I would rather wait for more on screen evidence until you make a conclusion.--{{User:Skittles the hog/sig}} 15:38, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
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| :@Boblipton:We have ''positive'' proof. We also have a ''lack'' of negative proof. We ''know'' that the Doctor dies--we saw that. We ''also'' know that River was the one to kill him (''Let's Kill Hitler''). Can you prove that wrong? --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 00:09, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :We know that someone in a spacesuit shot him twice. Everyone thinks it's River. That doesn't mean it is. Ever see a newspaper retraction? [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 00:41, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :So...you're saying that River murdered a man, and everyone is ''mistaken'' when they claim she killed the Doctor, including the Teselecta. --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 01:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :No. I'm not saying that. But given the evidence we have, including eye witnesses, a good lawyer could get her off. But that's not the gist of my point. Attend, please. I am not saying she didn't kill the Doctor. I'm saying that the evidence we need to put it on the page is not present. This keeps getting said again and again and we keep getting it wrong. How much of your time did you spend correcting false 'information' concerning the Silence being a species? I know that I rewrote the section on the Doctor teaching River how to fly the TARDIS in light of the last episode. Such gaffes will happen from time to time anyway, but it is the official policy of this wiki that we depend on what we see onscreen. Did you see Sydney Wade's face at Lake Silencio? I didn't. Until we do, or the face of someone credited onscreen as River Song or Melody Pond or whatever she's called, then it is not a fact. It's speculation. [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 01:47, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| ::We KNOW that the Doctor dies. FACT. We saw that happen. We KNOW that River will kill the Doctor. FACT. (Or at least as far as we know from the current story.) What MORE do you need? As far was we know, River was in the suit because she was the one that killed the Doctor. Until we get any more info that prove me wrong, we need to stick with the facts. --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 23:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :::You never read any murder mysteries, did you? [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 23:28, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :::::You didn't answer me. ''As far as we know'', River was in the suit. That is what the episodes have shown, and that is what we need to display until we have further information. --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 23:35, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| ::::::What exactly was wrong with the comprimise solution that others had put up? - It made clear that we haven't seen under the visor yet, so we can't be sure; and it even noted that the data download said River did it - putting "someone" whilst noting that data seems by far the most sensible soution, especially when we have a main writer that likes to play around with our expectations [[User:Baziel|Baziel]] 23:46, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| :Looks reasonable to me, Baziel. Now, pardon me please, while I try to answer Bold Clone.
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| :As far as we can tell, I was in the suit. We have no direct evidence that any one individual was in the suit and an implication that'' no one'' was in the suit.
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| :1: In "Day of the Moon" the Doctor asks if the suit could move by itself. No answer.
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| :2: Extraneous issues abound. Why was a Silence present?
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| :3: No one but the Doctor had any chance to see a face in the suit.
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| :4: River has never said she killed the Doctor at Lake Silencio.
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| :It's easy enough to build up scenarios in which River did not kill the Doctor at Lake Silencio, ranging from taking the blame for some one else to a conspiracy with the Doctor to cover his tracks while we goes after the Silence. After all, why bother to send someone else when he's dead, even if he's playing poker with you at the moment.
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| :You may argue that these are all speculations, and you would be right. However, as someone who has read hundreds, if not thousands of murder mysteries, the technique of writing them is to make sure that some one else looks guilty. Usually they wind up dead by chapter 4. River certainly qualifies for that. She died, what, three years ago?
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| :Building a scenario in which River did not kill the Doctor at Lake Silencio is speculative. However, saying that she absolutely, positively did is also speculative. Sorry.[[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 23:51, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
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| ::Based of the ''current'' information we have, we ''need'' to say that River killed the Doctor. ''As far as we know'', River was the one who did it. Those are the ''facts'', it ''is'' speculation to say otherwise. That is what the story says, and we would be doing a shoddy job of being "the most accurate Doctor Who wiki" if we did not. --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 15:03, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
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| :::Was it said in the episode "River Song killed the Doctor by Lake Silencio?" No it didn't. It could be she killed the Doctor in what he believes, kills him for what he is (what she told him in AGMGTW). It could also be a red-herring. We don't know who's in the suit, to to say it's River Song is speculation and against the MOS. [[User:Mini-mitch|MM]]/<small>[[User talk:Mini-mitch|Want to talk?]]</small> 15:08, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
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| :::
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| :::Bold Clone, you keep repeating that we know this. Please look up the words "know" and "believe" in the dictionary. We know '''facts'''. Should later episodes show that River did not murder the Doctor, would it then cease to be a fact? The statement "River killed the Doctor" is not a a statement of fact. It is a reasonable inference that you believe. I do not dispute the reasonableness of the inference, but I do dispute its factuality.
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| :::Also, please do not argue your case by repeatedly telling me what "we know." I don't know this, so this is a false statement, and the repetition serves no purpose but to annoy me and and make me write these posts which, undoubtedly, annoy you. I'm not here to annoy you and don't like doing it. I fully expect that by the end of the season we will see what happens at Lake Silencio from a different viewpoint. Let us be patient. [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 15:18, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
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| :As far as we know, she did it. Facts are facts until they are disproven--that is the very nature of science.
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| :River killed the Doctor, and the Doctor died at the lake. forgive me if the logic is to much for you. I am aware that there are thousand and one different possibilities--for all we know, Amy killed the Doctor, but River took the blame for it. Or River killed Rory, she was put in jail by the Doctor for trying to undermine her own timestream, and Steven Moffat himself was in the suit. But based off the current story information, you cannot legitimately remove the info. At best, you could say "a figure in a spacesuit killed the Doctor, and the Teselecta believed it was the Doctor." (The reason I removed it earlier is that it still seems speculative to me.)
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| :And I'm sure you're right--we will see the Lake again, from a different perspective. So let's just wait--and until then, we go with twhat the story has told us--River killed the Doctor. --[[User:Bold Clone|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Bold'''</span>]] [[User Talk:Bold Clone|<span style="color:gold">'''Clone'''</span>]] 15:36, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
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