Talk:Demons Run

Doctor's allies

I added all of them, but can't remember who the 4th one was. Anyone know the name of the blue guy? Dream Focus 13:50, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Melody/River counts as a native to this place?

Should we really count it as being a native? I mean, she was forced to be born there instead of her true home planet of Earth due to kovarian's manipulations. It isn't right to consider her forced birth there as making her a native.

Can we add that it belonged to the silence as they were the organiser,kovarian was there representative

No. Being a native includes issues of society. Just because John McCain was born in the Canal Zone does not make him a Panamanian native.Boblipton 12:57, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting point, as by act of Congress, John McCain is (like any baby from the zone) considered a natural born US citizen. Back to topic, though, Melody is the only one that we know can make a claim to being a native of this rock, regardless of the circumstances of her birth. There does not appear to be a competing exclusionary social group, and listing her as a native neatly points up a major reason why it's notable. --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 20:07, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Demon's Run or Demons Run

Which one is it? Because the BBC call it Demons Run, but we call it Demon's Run. I'm a bit puzzled by this. Cortion 16:55, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, isn't it numerous Demons running (Demons Run). Surely it's not a run belonging to a Demon?----Skittles the hog--Talk 17:21, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well, "Demons Run" didn't make much grammatical sense to me, so I've been typing it as "Demon's Run". On the other hand, it the BBC called the location "Demons Run", then that's what we should use. --Bold Clone 02:46, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

Moved it.----Skittles the hog--Talk 12:57, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

It's spelled "Demon's Run" on the written credit in the episode. Boblipton 00:58, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I would be in favour of "Demon's Run", as that's how it appeared in the episode. The fact that the name, in-universe, derived from "some old saying" wouldn't really indicate how to spell it, because names evolve.-BBCXI 05:02, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

So your suggesting it's "Demon's run when a good man goes to war"? I don't think so.----Skittles the hog--Talk 12:47, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

I think that what we have here is folk etymology, the misinterpretation of a word based on pronunciation -- like 'sparrow grass' for 'asparagus'. There is no way to tell whether the asteroid was named after the saying and acquired the spurious apostrophe, whether the saying actually derived from the name of the asteroid or the fortuitous similarity of the two names caused people to assume that the asteroid was named after the saying.Boblipton 12:59, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

The saying is irrelevant, this page is about the asteroid. The only use of the saying is the fact it only makes sense without the apostrophe.----Skittles the hog--Talk 13:10, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

If the saying is irrelevant, surely we would go by what was shown on screen: "Demon's Run" is the name of the asteroid base.

While I wouldn't say that the saying is irrelevant, I think Boblipton's point is that it's not determinative. In-universe, a station named "Demons Run" after the saying "Demons run when a good man goes to war" could easily have evolved into "Demon's Run", much the same way that "Harrod's" has become "Harrods". One could well argue that "Surely it's not a reference to multiple Harrods, but to a store belonging to Harrod," but the fact remains that the current name is now "Harrods". The current name of the base, as shown on-screen, is "Demon's Run." -BBCXI 15:26, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

I would tend to agree wit BBCXI.

In universe and on screen it's got an apostrophe, I think we need to take the asteroid and the poem as separate things.

While the poem makes less sense with the apostrophe it can work, it could be a run belonging to a demon. We don't know if the reading of the poem is important (like the End of Time the narrative may become important).

But for now I would advocated moving it back to Demon's Run. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:38, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

In a frame within the episode, at the very beginning of the scene where the Fat One is being brought to the transept to join the Headless Monks, there is a plate on the wall that says DEMONS RUN | AUTHORISED PERSONNEL ONLY. That's in narrative evidence for no apostrophe... ComicBookGoddess ☎ 03:30, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Very good, CBG. Considering that narrative evidence goes above what's written in the out-of-universe credits, we must change it to Demons Run. Unless anyone can find narrative evidence that contradicts this, of course. Do you mind either taking a screenshot? Otherwise, I'll find it and do it myself. --SOTO ☎ 04:23, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Can't remember if I have screen cap software or a blu-ray drive, so have at it. The shot is pretty much exactly at time code 7 minutes. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 04:41, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

My god, my computer's slow!!! Anyway, here's the screenshot:

Screenshot taken from 6:59 of TV: A Good Man Goes to War. You can see the proper in-universe spelling clearly. --SOTO ☎ 05:32, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

The caption on-screen (at 48 seconds in) still says "Demon's Run".

How should we balance the caption and the physical in-universe element that SOTO and ComicBookGoddess have presented?

I can't in any confidence say that the caption is out of universe as I'm concerned where that would leave us with regard to in-story subtitles like in The Curse of Fenric (TV story). --Tangerineduel / talk 15:00, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

All other bits being equal - and narratively we can see that they are - the "Demons Run" spelling is better for database and addressing. Can we set it back to that, and perhaps treat it as a person with an alias - add an "also known as", a redirect from "Demon's Run", and a line in the text stating it is known as both? ComicBookGoddess ☎ 01:51, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yep that can be done.

When I move the page I will do all that adding a note in the intro to the article and probably a behind the scenes section explaining the evidence presented here.

Unless no one has any objections to moving the article to "Demons Run" I'll do it in a day or so. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:07, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Demons run when a good man goes to war- annon

Demons run When a good man goes to war Night will fall And drown the sun When a good man goes to war

Friendship dies And true love lies Night will fall And the dark will rise When a good man goes to war

Demons run But count the cost The battles won But the child is lost The fight goes on but what's it for When a good man goes to war

Now rise the sun Now dawn the day When good men run And women stay When battles done When nothings won It's a woman's work to say Well then, soldier, how goes that day? Quickhakker ☎ 03:27, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

I see this quote in random places, where is it from? The TV show's poem only had the first two verses, and then most of the third. Is the rest fan-made? TY AilaG ☎ 19:46, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

I've seen it attributed to Moffat as an unused verse, but I hope that was wrong. It's a bit offensive. --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 19:55, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Moffat disclosed the cut part of the poem in his Production Notes in DWM issue 457. ~D0ct0r11 • 19:18 Thu 3 Mar 2013 19:18, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Anglican Regiment? Source?

The lede names the regiment, and I don't recall anything naming the regiment in the television episode, and I watched it within the last week. I think it's speculation, but if there's a narrative non-TV source or a valid extra-narrative source on this I don't know. Do we have a solid source from outside the TV show or is somebody extrapolating from the dialog of the Fat One? ComicBookGoddess ☎ 02:04, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ok. The dialog establishes that the Thin One and Fat One are marines, but nothing in this or the other related Church episodes declares "Anglican Regiment" or "Anglican Marines" as a proper name. For all we know, the entire Church is Anglican. Editing to remove this conjecture as per forum post. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:51, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Demons Run poem

The poem on-screen does not end with "When a good man goes to war", just "the child is lost". If you wish to change this, please explain why in this talk section. (I COULD be wrong but please explain if you disagree) AilaG ☎ 19:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Just checked. You're absolutely correct. --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 20:02, March 21, 2013 (UTC)