Talk:Judaea

Combined page?

Obviously this is a contentious issue, but I think it might be useful to have a combined page for the region known at various times and by various people as Judaea, Israel, and Palestine (As PROSE: The Last Days confirms are different names for the same place). Obviously the existing pages for any political entities, should remain separate, provided they pass T:NO RW, but to concisely cover the history of the region a shared page would be beneficial, I feel. Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter, and if this were to go ahead, what name we would bestow on such a page would be (so as to remain neutral)? Danochy ☎ 11:05, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

This seems like a great idea and should be uncontroversial in light of The Last Days, as you mention. The wiki is no stranger to taking bold geopolitical stances – Talk:Taiwanese girl (Children of Earth: Day One), for one – but we could tidily avoid the issue here by using the historical name Judaea and leaving the others as redirects. As our Data Core is written from the perspective of After the End of Time, there's no particular reason for us to favor either of the contested 21st century titles over their 1st century equivalent, especially since it's approximately just as recognizable. – N8 (☎/👁️) 17:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Well. I don't know if it's uncontroversial. It seems everything we do is controversial. But it's certainly within policy that the physical location can be referred to as one name, while political entities then remain separate, per your source. Najawin ☎ 17:17, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree, N8! I'd also have to agree with you on naming the place Judaea or Judea, depending on which is most commonly used. In terms of political entities, Najawin, Israel does presently get referred to as a country in its lead, however there are plenty of pages that do this without in-universe evidence. Even so, the history section of the page does seem to point to it being a nation however, so I wonder whether that would be sufficient? As for Palestine, the page refers to the British Mandate of Palestine, so I suppose we have an entity there, if not the 21st century one. Finally, Judea may also deserve its own political page if we ever find any evidence of its status as either the Roman province or the Kingdom of Judah, but such evidence seems scarce. Danochy ☎ 01:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

I'd have to check DWU sources, but strictly speaking, each one of these does have separate borders. The Kingdom of Judah, for instance, was separate from the Northern Kingdom (Israel).

100% agree, if we do a merge, that we shouldn't go with the modern-day nation, but going with Judea, the Roman province, does also seem a bit odd to me. Personally, I'd probably go for the vaguely defined historical Canaan.

Ideally, we'd want the name used for the region for the longest period of time, or at least one with historical significance. But we've got to stick to the DWU sources for this, which might mean relying on The Dying Days for Judea.

(I'm also not yet entirely convinced we shouldn't have pages for distinct political entities. We did merge Constantinople and Istanbul, on the level of cities, so let's check what precedents we've got for nation-states.)
×   SOTO contribs ×°/↯/•]   💬•| {/-//:   16:37, 4 April 2022 (UTC)