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{{ | {{archive}}[[Category:Policy changers]] | ||
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== Introduction == | == Introduction == | ||
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== Discussion == | == Discussion == | ||
I'll need to study this once I have more free time, but one thing I want to say is that I think forums like this should be in [[Forum:Inclusion debates]] once that is open again. I think the Inclusion debates should cover all theory of coverage, nut just if the "valid" switch is clicked one way or the other. | |||
One thing we do have to keep in mind here is that I think the author's note about wanting this to be covered on Tardis Wiki is actually a reference to Rule 1. If he hadn't introduced 13 and Yaz being trapped in the book, some might have said "This isn't a narrative!" Ironically, as we all know, rule 1 is now that ''fiction'' passes. So it's now more reasonable for us to look at this story and say - hey, this section is clearly contributing a story featuring the actual characters, not meta copies of said characters within the book. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 19:44, 28 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
: Feel free to argue for that change at [[Forum:The New Forums]], but note that in terms of [[T:BOUND|current policy]] this was the correct place to post it as per [[Forum:Inclusion debates#When policy changes]]. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 11:43, 31 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
::But this isn't changing any policies, is it? It's just reevaluating how we look at this source. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|Aquanafrahudy]] [[User talk:Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:30, 31 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
Since we're at day 30, and almost nothing has been said, I want to chime in that I personally think Walt seems to know the most about this text and I'd trust him to cover it however he wants until further notice. If anything turns up being extremely disagreeable in implementation we can just do another forum about it later. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 21:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
: I've finally gotten around to reading this and wow, it's surprisingly tricky. The thing that I find the hardest is that the helter-skelter skit has no unique title or separation from the wider [[Eleventh Doctor]] section (which starts before the skit and continues after it). I don't think we should treat all of the rest of the jokes in each Doctor's section as valid as they're, well, jokes, not narratives, or fact files, or descriptions of events, or anything with substance, instead frequently just silly play-on-words, but there is a case to be made for a few specific jokes, like this one. | |||
: Outside of the Doctor's section, I feel things are easier. Each of the other sections listed in the contents page have clear framing devices that I feel easily gives cause to treat them as separate. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 07:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Conclusion == | |||
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It seems that even with a further 30 days renewal (whose own deadline has now passed), there's just not that much interest in this thread, I guess because not many people read the book. I'll try to make a preliminary ruling, but note that this thread was skinny enough that anyone would be well within their rights to start another one later if they think they have a shot at drumming up more interest from the community. | |||
There's a lot of unknowns here. I think whether [[Joke book (Knock! Knock! Who's There?)]] is ''Knock! Knock! Who's There'' itself is probably not one of them, ''per se''. As [[User:WaltK]] himself noted, the intent is pretty clear from the quote. But does that necessarily mean that the sub-narratives making up jokes other than the ones about Thirteen and Yaz are necessarily wholly fictive? We shouldn't be too sure. Maybe the joke books was written as a record of true events. Maybe the Eleventh Doctor and Strax and Rory and the Thyme Lord were all trapped into the joke-book ''too'', and Thirteen and Yaz are just the ones who realised! We should steer clear of any coverage that too definitively asserts anything about the jokes' reality one way or the other. And all characters who appear in the jokes should see the book represented in their lists of appearances. | |||
I do not, however, on the current evidence, think there is reason or consensus to ''split'' the book into individual pages about specific narrative jokes. This seems more akin to ''[[The Book of the War (novel)|The Book of the War]]'', if you'll forgive the comparison; a tome with something of a frame narrative, and intended by its author to be perceived as one whole, but which is ''also'' made up of fragments which can be enjoyed individually. Perhaps I might have been tempted to rule differently a few months ago, for the sake of clearer citation: but now {{tlx|cite source}} allows us to cite those jokes which have individual titles more finely, ''without'' having to split the book itself up. Much preferable under the circumstances. | |||
Thanks to everone who… erm. Well, thanks to those civic-minded few who participated. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 16:57, 19 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
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