Forum:Information revealed in a foreign language: Difference between revisions
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::Ties into [[Forum:Loosening T:NO RW]]. Suffice it to say that I '''''strongly''''' disagree. (Even putting aside the fact that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminacy_of_translation translation is impossible].) You can sometimes pin down what words mean, IU, from context, imo, but that makes it very difficult to then say that information is ''revealed'' from foreign languages, except through painstaking analysis of how new phrases relate to old ones, what these new phrases mean, and then these new phrases referring to things IU and giving you info. See, for instance [[Talk:Aztec calendar]] for some gestures in this direction. It was a fair bit of work, and I think that this is how we should proceed, not just assuming that phrases mean the same thing IU as they do OOU. (Most obviously there's reason to be skeptical that a prop department would get labels correct for a foreign language, or that actors in Britain in a period that ranges from the 1960s to today would speak a foreign language in ways that aren't without controversy.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC) | ::Ties into [[Forum:Loosening T:NO RW]]. Suffice it to say that I '''''strongly''''' disagree. (Even putting aside the fact that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminacy_of_translation translation is impossible].) You can sometimes pin down what words mean, IU, from context, imo, but that makes it very difficult to then say that information is ''revealed'' from foreign languages, except through painstaking analysis of how new phrases relate to old ones, what these new phrases mean, and then these new phrases referring to things IU and giving you info. See, for instance [[Talk:Aztec calendar]] for some gestures in this direction. It was a fair bit of work, and I think that this is how we should proceed, not just assuming that phrases mean the same thing IU as they do OOU. (Most obviously there's reason to be skeptical that a prop department would get labels correct for a foreign language, or that actors in Britain in a period that ranges from the 1960s to today would speak a foreign language in ways that aren't without controversy.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::: While I understand your viewpoint I'm not sure I'm convinced by it. If we're not allowed to translate anything, then how the hell do we cover ''[[Daleks, invasión a la Tierra año 2150 (comic story)|Daleks, invasión a la Tierra año 2150]]'', which is exclusively published in Spanish? And then, what do we do if a character speaks another language in performed media but not subtitles or translation is given? {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 00:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 00:55, 22 April 2024
Index → Advice and Assistance → Information revealed in a foreign language
Spoilers are strongly policed here.
If this thread's title doesn't specify it's spoilery, don't bring any up.
If this thread's title doesn't specify it's spoilery, don't bring any up.
Opening
How do we handle in-universe information that is divulged in a language other than English? Whether it be spoken verbally, or through writing? Furthermore, if it's the latter kind, what if it's a language that doesn't use the Latin alphabet??
I recently came across this scene early in The Bells of Saint John:
This shot, set in Tokyo, contains an advertisement for a real world Japanese music album - Rockbound Neighbours by Nana Mizuki. From the English side of things, the title for Miss Mizuki's page can only be drawn from conjecture. However, the poster has her name written right there in Japanese (水樹 奈々).
Would one be allowed to take this info into account? WaltK ☎ 22:58, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
I feel like that would be reasonable, allowing us to translate stuff in stories. (Also I initially thought this was a thread about translation-exclusive material like GoldenEye 007) Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 23:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Considering there are full stories released in other languages (Amser Gwyllt and Daleks, invasión a la Tierra año 2150) I think it's perfectly acceptable to translate information. (Also ditto @Cookieboy 2005, J too initially thought this thread was about translation-exclusive material.) 23:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ties into Forum:Loosening T:NO RW. Suffice it to say that I strongly disagree. (Even putting aside the fact that translation is impossible.) You can sometimes pin down what words mean, IU, from context, imo, but that makes it very difficult to then say that information is revealed from foreign languages, except through painstaking analysis of how new phrases relate to old ones, what these new phrases mean, and then these new phrases referring to things IU and giving you info. See, for instance Talk:Aztec calendar for some gestures in this direction. It was a fair bit of work, and I think that this is how we should proceed, not just assuming that phrases mean the same thing IU as they do OOU. (Most obviously there's reason to be skeptical that a prop department would get labels correct for a foreign language, or that actors in Britain in a period that ranges from the 1960s to today would speak a foreign language in ways that aren't without controversy.) Najawin ☎ 00:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- While I understand your viewpoint I'm not sure I'm convinced by it. If we're not allowed to translate anything, then how the hell do we cover Daleks, invasión a la Tierra año 2150, which is exclusively published in Spanish? And then, what do we do if a character speaks another language in performed media but not subtitles or translation is given? 00:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
