Talk:First Doctor/Psychological profile

Excessive cite sourcing

Just seen the subpage split and it's a good move, IMO. However, there is still an issue with excessive citing. Forgive the upcoming copy/paste but it helps prove my point. This is so inaccessible, and we still have the bug where cite messes up due to the amount. Surely we can resort to "et al." or something instead of this mess? • Fractal • 10:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

• He also made a habit of repeatedly uttering "dear", (TV: "The Cave of Skulls" [+], "The Ordeal" [+], "The Roof of the World" [+], "The Warriors of Death" [+], "The Daleks" [+], "The Powerful Enemy" [+], "The Web Planet" [+], "The Wheel of Fortune" [+], "The Space Museum" [+], "The Death of Time" [+], The War Machines [+]) "yes", (TV: "An Unearthly Child" [+], "The Forest of Fear" [+], "The Dead Planet" [+], "The Escape" [+], "The Ordeal" [+], "The Rescue" [+], "The Edge of Destruction" [+], "The Roof of the World" [+], "The Velvet Web" [+], "Sentence of Death" [+], "A Race Against Death" [+], "Guests of Madame Guillotine" [+], "A Change of Identity" [+], "Planet of Giants" [+], "The Daleks" [+], "The Slave Traders" [+], "All Roads Lead to Rome" [+], "The Web Planet" [+], "The Zarbi" [+], "The Space Museum" [+], "Flight Through Eternity" [+], "The Watcher" [+], "Trap of Steel" [+], "Horse of Destruction" [+], "Day of Armageddon" [+], "Coronas of the Sun" [+], "The Feast of Steven" [+], "War of God" [+], "Bell of Doom" [+], "Don't Shoot the Pianist" [+], The Savages [+], The War Machines [+], The Smugglers [+]) "no", (TV: "The Rescue" [+], "The Edge of Destruction" [+], "Kidnap" [+], "A Desperate Venture" [+], "Planet of Giants" [+], "The Powerful Enemy" [+], "The Web Planet" [+], "The Executioners" [+], "The Planet of Decision" [+], "Trap of Steel" [+], "A Holiday for the Doctor" [+]) "wait", (TV: "The Day of Darkness" [+], "Planet of Giants" [+]) and, "of course". (TV: "A Change of Identity" [+], "The Web Planet" [+], "Johnny Ringo" [+])

• When something made him laugh, the Doctor would release a series of small, high-pitched chuckles. (TV: "An Unearthly Child" [+], "The Ordeal" [+], "The Edge of Destruction" [+], "The Roof of the World" [+], "The Wall of Lies" [+], "The Keys of Marinus" [+], "Strangers in Space" [+], "A Race Against Death" [+], "A Desperate Venture" [+], "Planet of Giants" [+], "Crisis" [+], "The Daleks" [+], "The Powerful Enemy" [+], "Desperate Measures" [+], "The Slave Traders" [+], "All Roads Lead to Rome" [+], "Inferno" [+], "The Web Planet" [+], "Crater of Needles" [+], "The Knight of Jaffa" [+], "The Wheel of Fortune" [+], "The Space Museum" [+], "The Dimensions of Time" [+], "The Final Phase" [+], "Journey into Terror" [+], "The Watcher" [+], "A Battle of Wits" [+], "Checkmate" [+], "Four Hundred Dawns" [+], "Trap of Steel" [+], "Death of a Spy" [+], "The Nightmare Begins" [+], "Golden Death" [+], "War of God" [+], "Bell of Doom" [+], "The Final Test" [+], The War Machines [+], The Time Meddler [+])

Yes, absolutely. Please do if you have the spoons and time. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 11:49, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright, should be sorted now? I've taken them to four but I think some parts could benefit from being just three stories. I've tried to vary the stories cited too so it's not just the same four over and over. But I think these pages, for all the Doctors, would benefit from some non-TV stories cited in there too - they're all very TV-centric. Guyus24 ☎ 08:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

So you guys are now advocating the removal of information rather than forking over the money to get your system updated, or just stop using a method you know doesn't work in overuse? In any event, referencing the number of episodes the habits, skills and character traits appear in shows which traits are more prominent, which period of the Doctor's life he indulges in them more and helps differentiate his major over minor quirks. As foe why they are mostly television centric, that is to stop the very over citing problem you are referencing, save for traits mostly displayed in expanded media, as the expanded universe is dependent on the television series to anchor itself, as well as being the audiences main point of reference. BananaClownMan ☎ 09:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Having a sentence and then like three entire lines of citations is unreadable, whether they are using cs or not. There's two things going on here - the over-citation and the cs issues. cs is fixed now so that's not a problem anymore, but the other thing is. With all those citations it's essentially acting as a list of all the episodes in which the First Doctor does these things, which - I don't know - maybe there is some value in that. That's worth a discussion I think. But it really does need to be done in a seperate way coz otherwise you just can't read the section properly. Guyus24 ☎ 10:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Sometimes it's easier to list episodes where the Doctor doesn't do a particular habit, or reference when someonelse mimics, comments or outright insults them for their quirks. BananaClownMan ☎ 10:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Aaaaaaaand… we’re back to the exact same problem. Danniesen ☎ 11:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

As foe why they are mostly television centric, that is to stop the very over citing problem you are referencing

Soooooo they violate policy to avoid an issue? (Also, the bug has been fixed. But don't let that stop your cynicism.) Najawin ☎ 15:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

It's reasonable that citation for a fact shared by a large amounts of stories should, in most cases, be the first few stories to establish that fact — which in the case of a TV-originating character is going to tend to be his original TV era. For example, if I wanted to say "The First Doctor travelled in the TARDIS", I would cite that to "(TV: An Unearthly Child ^[+]Loading...["An Unearthly Child (TV story)"], The Daleks ^[+]Loading...["The Daleks (TV story)"], etc.)". I don't think this is in violation of T:NPOV; it's purely contextual. By no means should we end up with all-TV in this section, though; surely there are points about the Doctor's personality which were first, or most clearly, established in non-TV sources. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 16:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The reason I copy/pasted examples into my original post above was to show just how awful excessive citing is - I'm used to reading long essays and prose, but those walls of text (complete with + symbols everywhere) would just instantly put me off. I also just felt like we didn't need to cite every example. What next, when we say "the Doctor used his sonic screwdriver" we need to cite every single individual example? Nah, just a small handful followed by "et al." is more than sufficient. — Fractal • 17:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

("etc" until the conclusion of Forum:Etc. vs et al.) Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 18:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Fractal. Citing every single source for a thing that appears in 1000s of different sources is utterly stupid. That’s not debatable. It just is. Danniesen ☎ 19:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Aquanafrahudy, fair enough. I meant that, just mixed the two up. Even though the cite bug is fixed, it's still way cleaner to limit the list of examples :) — Fractal • 19:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)