Talk:Jenny (The Doctor's Daughter): Difference between revisions

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== Relationship to Susan ==
== Time Lord vs Gallifreyan ==
This article says that Susan would be Jenny's nice. I think it's forgetting the possibility that Susan could be Jenny's ''daughter''. [[Special:Contributions/96.45.196.227|96.45.196.227]] 18:50, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
Surely Jenny is Gallifreyan and not yet Time Lord? Because it seems the only way to become a Time Lord to go through the academy, which of course, Jenny has not done. Even the Doctor says she isn't. Yes, he refers to seeing them through her, but surely that's just from most Time Lords being Gallifreyan, therefore he can still see them through her. [[User:Ben Moore512|Ben Moore512]] [[User talk:Ben Moore512|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:20, September 23, 2018 (UTC)
:That would mean he would have to know about her since his first incarnation AND she is going to survive... and he doesnt either. --[[User:TakeruDavis|TakeruDavis]] 16:18, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
:The new Big Finish box set has confirmed that Jenny is a Time Lord. Garundel scans her DNA and says that he has seen it before (when meeting the Doctor in an earlier Big Finish play). It seems that the semantics of going to the Academy aren't considered by these newer releases. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 17:13, September 23, 2018 (UTC)
::In theory, Jenny could be Susan's mother without screwing up continuity. However, I think the chances of it happening are slim to none. It's far more reasonable to assume Susan is simply a niece.- '' <span style ="color:midnightblue">I. Am. [[User: Excalibur-117| Excalibur-117]]''-<sup>([[User talk:Excalibur-117|talk]] • [[Special: Contributions/ Excalibur-117|contribs]])</sup></span> 16:36, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
:: Oh well. Maybe she's a Time Lord because her DNA is completely copied from the Doctor, not just the Gallifreyan parts. [[User:Ben Moore512|Ben Moore512]] [[User talk:Ben Moore512|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:16, September 23, 2018 (UTC)
:Or because modern writers (quite rightly in my opinion) are junking the "Academy graduates get genetic alterations to make them full Time Lords" idea just like they junked Looms. Which, you know, quite right in my opinion. --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:44, June 4, 2019 (UTC)
Per [[Tardis:Discussion policy]], article talk pages are for discussing the '''editing''' of an article, not for speculation or opinion. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 04:59, June 5, 2019 (UTC)
: Some of the posts in this discussion may have veered into speculation as part of this, but the point of this section ''is'' to discuss a point of editing in the article. Namely, Ben Moore512 feels that we oughtn't identify Jenny's species as "Time Lord" in the article. Revan and I argued against this suggestion. All in the business of editing.--[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:27, June 5, 2019 (UTC)


== Time Lords a race? ==
== Rename ==
I'm not sure I'm in favour of this rename. Yes, theoretically she might qualify as a primary topic — but a lot of fans' primary associations with the name "Jenny" ''are'' going to be [[Jenny Flint|the "Paternoster Gang" Jenny]], whose last name doesn't strike me as that well-known outside committed fandom. Additionally, in terms of searchability, I surmise that most people will tend to Google "Doctor's Daughter Jenny", not just "Jenny". We have here a very rare case where the [[T:DAB]]-mandated story-title dab doubles as the descriptor for the character that most people would be looking for; I think it is a stroke of luck we shouldn't discard out of hand. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


Are the Time Lords a race, cause some sources e.g. [[REF]]: [[Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia]] says that they are but various sources mentioning before the [[Last Great Time War|Time War]] e.g. [[TV]]: ''[[The Invasion of Time]]'' seem to suggest that they are more of a society? Which of it is it to be? Or is it not certain?
: Yeah, I agree with all of the above. I think there would be a loss in searchability and conciseness if the proposed change were to go through, as outlined in Scrooge's reasoning. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)


Also is under the Infobox Race category is a Female [[Time Lord]] called a [[Time Lady]] because humans are sometimes called Man and a male human is also called a man but women is not a species name so is [[Time Lady]]?--[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]] 19:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
:: I agree with the above as well. While I think the Doctor's daughter probably would be who the majority of people would be looking for if they just searched "Jenny", I don't think it would be ''enough'' of a majority to justify the rename. The name is just a bit too common to direct to one character. At least with the dab, those searching for the character will know for sure they have the right Jenny. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)


-- This is better asked on the article on Time Lords, but from my understanding of it, the current canon is that "Time Lords" are a race, and that is how RTD expressed his opinion on the status of the Doctor as being a Time Lord, not "half-human/half Time Lord".[[User:BlackEarth|BlackEarth]] 16:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::: Considering these points, I do feel as if keeping the dab now is best. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 11:11, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


If she was a time lord, then why does the doctor acknowledge the fact that he's the only time lord left? [[Special:Contributions/90.202.74.73|90.202.74.73]] 11:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
How come the move was carried out anyway, despite a full consensus here? [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


:He thought she died didn't he. {{User:Solar Dragon/Signature}} 12:05, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
== Twitter video ==


== Time Lords not a race ==
The link https://twitter.com/georgiaetennant/status/957666470233870337 no longer works. Has anyone archived the video? --[[User:JohnVeness|JohnVeness]] [[User talk:JohnVeness|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:47, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 
from http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Lady "Time Lords may also be referred to as Gallifreyans, though it is not certain if all Gallifreyans were Time Lords, or the Time Lords were only an elite echelon of Gallifreyan society." Jenny might genically be a Gallifreyan but is not trained as a Time Lord [[Special:Contributions/64.129.127.5|64.129.127.5]] 17:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
if she has not been trained as a time lord that would explain why the doctor cant sense her like other time lords her "time brain" has not been telepathically trained
 
:First, '''sign your comments!'''
 
:Second, this may be the case, but it's pure speculation. It's also somewhat discredited by the Invisible Enemy and the Great Time Lord Intelligentsia. Pardon any misspellings there, it's not an everyday word. =) --[[User:TheOmnius|TheOmnius]] 13:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 
In my view, Time Lords ARE a species, the evolution of the common Gallifreyans. DO you remember The Sound of Drums/The Last of the Time Lords? Time Lords became what they are due to exposure to the Untempered Schim. Because of that, their brains can understand more about time and (Possibly) the regeneration energy. Also, in 'The Girl Who Waited', Time Lords are said to be a 'Two-hearted species'. I'm sure that Time Lords are a species in the new series context.
 
== Inherited characteristics ==
Like her father, Jenny has two hearts. She also had reflexes, precision timing and acrobatic ability far beyond that of almost any Human. After her death, she shortly returned to life, expelling a "breath" of pure energy, though, unlike other [[Time Lord]]s undergoing regeneration, she did not change physically. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Doctor's Daughter]]'')it was due to her only being a few hours old that caused her to enter a healing trance like the doctor did in the christmas invasion
 
I've removed the last bit from the above quotation. In addition to improperly citing the Christmas Invasion, a complete lack of capitalization and a host of grammar mistakes, it does not cite anything to support the conclusion.
 
Fan conclusions are fun, and regardless of whether they may be right or not, this wiki isn't the place for them. --[[User:TheOmnius|TheOmnius]] 13:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
I'm really confused! Why didn't she change her appearence when she regenerated?
 
 
 
The gas exhaled from her longs during her revival was the same visually as the gas in the terraforming device, not what you see during regeneration.[[Special:Contributions/141.210.244.157|141.210.244.157]] 04:28, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
The effects are the same, actually. There is some debate as to whether she revived naturally or was somehow resurrected by the Source.
 
==An [[Other]] Referance==
well if the doctors race are sterile then couldn't her mentioning that the doctor has had children before be a referance to the other being the doctor?[[Special:Contributions/67.158.15.172|67.158.15.172]]
:Though it has not been definitively stated, it appears that the BBC Wales production team doesn't consider elements of the [[Virgin New Adventures]] to be canon; the most obvious example of this is that ''[[Last of the Time Lords]]'' showed a Gallifreyan child, whereas ''[[Lungbarrow]]'' says they emerge from the looms as adults. [[User:Monkey with a Gun|Monkey with a Gun]] 01:57, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
::Heh. It doesn't seem like they consider much in the way of prose or comic canon, actually. If you watch closely, they've even now set up better plausibility to excise more TV story bits from continuity. In any case, they also made references in [[Gridlock (TV story)]] and [[The End of Time (TV story)]] that don't jibe with that. Also, they very obviously ignore a lot of Sarah Jane's after story from the novels. [[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:16, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
==Possible Regeneration==
Is it posible Jenny could have regenerated, but it was a abort regeneration as it was the first fifteen hours of her life meaning any wounds would have healed itself such as when the Doctor has his hand cut off. [[User:Nacho2333|Nacho2333]] 22:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
== Clone? ==
On several pages of this wiki (but not this page itself) it says that Jenny is a clone of [[the Doctor]]. I got the impression that she wasn't a clone exactly (I mean, for starters, a clone would look exactly the same). I got the impression that, despite technically being born out of asexual reproduction only using the Doctor's DNA, the replicator thing (you'll have to excuse my memory, but I'm referring the the machine that made her) then dealt with the variation that you get during normal sexual reproduction and also changed her slightly, so she wasn't a clone, but more of a forced asexual offspring with variations ... (If you don't understand anything I said, I apologise, Biology isn't my strongest subject, please ask me if you want me to clarify me theory) --[[User:Imagine Wizard|Ima Wiz]] <small>[[wikipedia:Pig Latin|Iway amway Imagineway Izardway.]]</small> 14:48, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
 
I dunno. I always saw her as a more of a clone than a daughter in a similar way that the comic book character X-23 is a teenage girl cloned from Wolverine and also has some differences to him other than the obvious gender difference (she only has two claws per hand instead of three but has a claw on each foot which Wolverine doesn't).[[Special:Contributions/86.23.60.110|86.23.60.110]] 16:54, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
 
It's actually pretty easy to make a female clone from a male; just include two copies of the X chromosome rather than one X and one Y. Of course that assumes Gallifreyan genetics are similar to those of humans and most other Earth mammals, but they'd have to be much more similar than that to explain hybrids (Susan's son, Leela's son, possibly the Doctor himself), and for that matter to explain why a machine designed to clone humans would work on the Doctor at all. Needless to say, changing the sex of a clone will cause pretty major phenotypical changes, despite not introducing any new DNA; you won't just get an identical-looking person with different reproductive organs.
 
Also, clones aren't completely identical in the first place--less so than identical twins, who share 100% of the DNA like clones, and also share the same womb environment unlike clones. On top of that, while the current biotechnologicals way of creating clones (look up "somatic cell nuclear transfer" and "embryo splitting") both involve exact DNA replication, it's possibly to create clones by effectively creating an egg and sperm from the same donor and fertilizing them, which would mean recombining the donor's parents' DNA in a different order. (I hope that was readable by laymen without being too inaccurate, but it probably failed in one direction or the other....) --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.26.0|99.33.26.0]] 02:40, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
 
The Doctor describes the mechanism as a form of parthenogenesis[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis].
[[Special:Contributions/69.165.163.236|69.165.163.236]]<sup>[[User talk:69.165.163.236#top|talk to me]]</sup> 05:14, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
Presuming the Time Lord cellular biology is similar enough to human - and as the machine actually works, it's not as big an assumption as one might think – then there's still no stem cell or ovum involved, and the skin cell sample did not seem to reach into the dermis. That means that whatever the machine is doing, it still needed to extrapolate a version of the cellular machinery from differentiated cells at the very least. As they're finding in the lab, a great deal about how you come out is based on structures outside the DNA, in the cell processing it. So, two options: Jenny really is meta, albeit with a significant transfer of unusual genetic capability; or (and River really makes this sound more like it) Time Lords are very like humans on the level of cellular machinery. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:24, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
== Partial Time Lord? ==
 
Jenny is under the category partial Time Lords, although dialouge in the episode seems to indicate that she is a full time lord.  Should I change this?
 
: Would be speculation, unless we see her again and learn more. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:25, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
== Regeneration? ==
 
The article states that she was revived by the Source. Yet there is no indication in the episode that this is possible. Is there some source for this, or should it be assumed that she was revived using the canonical 15-hour-regeneration-cycle healing ability?--[[Special:Contributions/89.101.183.99|89.101.183.99]]<sup>[[User talk:89.101.183.99#top|talk to me]]</sup> 13:34, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
It might well be that the power of the Source was enough to trigger a partial regeneration. Or that her Time Lord...ness enabled her to harness the Source in some way. It's something of an open question that, if she ever does come back, may be explained later.
 
: And she might, possibly, be a full Time Lord, genetically. We don't know for sure, and, for that matter, neither did the Doctor. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:27, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:47, 18 June 2024

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 Archives: #1

Time Lord vs Gallifreyan[[edit source]]

Surely Jenny is Gallifreyan and not yet Time Lord? Because it seems the only way to become a Time Lord to go through the academy, which of course, Jenny has not done. Even the Doctor says she isn't. Yes, he refers to seeing them through her, but surely that's just from most Time Lords being Gallifreyan, therefore he can still see them through her. Ben Moore512 ☎ 16:20, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

The new Big Finish box set has confirmed that Jenny is a Time Lord. Garundel scans her DNA and says that he has seen it before (when meeting the Doctor in an earlier Big Finish play). It seems that the semantics of going to the Academy aren't considered by these newer releases. --Revan\Talk 17:13, September 23, 2018 (UTC)
Oh well. Maybe she's a Time Lord because her DNA is completely copied from the Doctor, not just the Gallifreyan parts. Ben Moore512 ☎ 17:16, September 23, 2018 (UTC)
Or because modern writers (quite rightly in my opinion) are junking the "Academy graduates get genetic alterations to make them full Time Lords" idea just like they junked Looms. Which, you know, quite right in my opinion. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 09:44, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

Per Tardis:Discussion policy, article talk pages are for discussing the editing of an article, not for speculation or opinion. Shambala108 ☎ 04:59, June 5, 2019 (UTC)

Some of the posts in this discussion may have veered into speculation as part of this, but the point of this section is to discuss a point of editing in the article. Namely, Ben Moore512 feels that we oughtn't identify Jenny's species as "Time Lord" in the article. Revan and I argued against this suggestion. All in the business of editing.--Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 17:27, June 5, 2019 (UTC)

Rename[[edit source]]

I'm not sure I'm in favour of this rename. Yes, theoretically she might qualify as a primary topic — but a lot of fans' primary associations with the name "Jenny" are going to be the "Paternoster Gang" Jenny, whose last name doesn't strike me as that well-known outside committed fandom. Additionally, in terms of searchability, I surmise that most people will tend to Google "Doctor's Daughter Jenny", not just "Jenny". We have here a very rare case where the T:DAB-mandated story-title dab doubles as the descriptor for the character that most people would be looking for; I think it is a stroke of luck we shouldn't discard out of hand. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 15:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with all of the above. I think there would be a loss in searchability and conciseness if the proposed change were to go through, as outlined in Scrooge's reasoning. Danochy ☎ 06:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the above as well. While I think the Doctor's daughter probably would be who the majority of people would be looking for if they just searched "Jenny", I don't think it would be enough of a majority to justify the rename. The name is just a bit too common to direct to one character. At least with the dab, those searching for the character will know for sure they have the right Jenny. LauraBatham ☎ 08:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Considering these points, I do feel as if keeping the dab now is best. 11:11, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

How come the move was carried out anyway, despite a full consensus here? Danochy ☎ 00:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Twitter video[[edit source]]

The link https://twitter.com/georgiaetennant/status/957666470233870337 no longer works. Has anyone archived the video? --JohnVeness ☎ 18:47, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

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