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| ==Star Whale / Starship UK connectors?==
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| The star whale has, at the very least, a hole cut in its head and its head fixed to the location of the Tower of London, a surgically implanted feeding tube, and a tube leading to an overflow area binding it to Starship UK. It's also reasonable to assume that all through its body are various girders and interlocks tying the two together. Why then, in the last scene, do we see the star whale apparently unhindered, especially around the mouth and head?
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| [[Special:Contributions/124.254.80.117|124.254.80.117]] 06:09, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
| | Who is the actor who appears in the voting booth video? |
| :Presumably everything is connected through the Star Whale's back. With the mouth, i'm choosing to believe it's a second, internal mouth, based on a) the Doctor saying that they were in the middle of the ship, and b) the inside of the mouth they see is small compared to the one we see at the end of the episode which is as wide as several of the towers. As for the brain, we don't necessarily know that its brain is in its head; it is a giant alien whale, after all... [[User:Ehsteve23|Ehsteve23]] 15:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| They do say the Star Whale was released, maybe all the tubes etc were removed?[[User:Excalibur-117|Excalibur-117]] 15:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Elevator Verse== | | == Date == |
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| | I'm removing any reference to this story taking place in 3295. The only justification given for this date is extrapolation from Amy's age. That's not good enough or a source. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:56, January 22, 2018 (UTC) |
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| Here is the full text of the poem the girl in the elevator recites in the lift, in case anyone needs it.
| | == 3295, cont. == |
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| | | I couldn't work out where [[3295]] was coming from (didn't check the talk page, above), but through some digging, found this explanation: |
| | | :''Amy is said to be 1306 years old, and she was born in [[1989]].'' |
| A horse and a man, above, below
| | I think ''circa'' [[3295]] is fair enough (much like extrapolating dates in ''Class'' or ''Miracle Day'', where there's a clear chronology, and this is even more precise than our "circa" treatment of the year in ''[[The Dalek Invasion of Earth (TV story)|The Dalek Invasion of Earth]]''), but unless Amy was born on 1 January there's just as much chance this is 3296. I think the category [[:category:Stories set in the 3290s|Stories set in the 3290s]] is without doubt most appropriate, so my query is more about what is best to put in the infobox. Any thoughts on "c. 3295"?{{User:SOTO/sig}} 20:29, February 6, 2019 (UTC) |
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| One has a plan but both must go
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| Mile after mile, above, beneath,
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| One has a smile and one has teeth
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| Though the man above might say hello
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| Expect no love from the Beast below.
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| [[Special:Contributions/124.254.80.117|124.254.80.117]] 01:03, April 11, 2010 (UTC) | |
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| And then, what Amy (I believe it's her) recites at the end of the episode as a voice over:
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| In bed above we're deep asleep.
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| While greater love lies further deep.
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| This dream must end, this world must know:
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| We all depend on the Beast below.
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| [[Special:Contributions/68.52.163.69|68.52.163.69]] 02:39, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Suggested Plot holes:==
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| The computer registers Amy to be over 1300 years old, when it should register her to be over 700
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| : Good spot there. It suggests either that the timeframe of the story was changed at some point, and the age calculation wasn't updated. Or Amy somehow gets registered several hundred years before she was born... possibly in a future adventure?
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| [[Special:Contributions/79.123.73.227|79.123.73.227]] 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Sensorite 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) | |
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| :: One point: I know the Doctor mentions that mankind branched out in the 29th century, but I can't remember any point where it mentions explicity that they are travelling in the 2800s (although I may be wrong). Isn't it possible that they have been travelling for hundreds of years, perhaps up to the 3300s (which makes Amy about the right age)? You're right, look down at the Setting highlight, it should be edited.[[User:Doctorin the TARDIS|Doctorin the TARDIS]] 22:54, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
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| If the Doctor and Amy are in the mouth of the star whale, shouldn't that mean they are exposed to the open space and suffocate? [[User:Conmck22|Conmck22]] 18:45, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
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| : Because the Star Whale has it's mouth closed? We only see the teeth, not the stars outside. Presumably it's lips form an air-tight seal, or it's lips had been sealed surgically when the feeding tubes were inserted. Any oxygen atomosphere would then come from Starship UK, possibly from the compressed air cannons used to force food down the tubes.<br />
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| This also explains why The Doctor and Amy end up in an overflow tube when the Star Whale vomits, rather than being expelled into space.
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| [[Special:Contributions/79.123.73.227|79.123.73.227]] 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Sensorite 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) | |
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| : The final scene pretty much shows the whale's mouth in open space. Even if if could maintain a high-pressure atmosphere behind closed lips, it would still vomit into empty space. [[User:Hack59|Hack59]] 14:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| ::We don't know the anatomy of a star whale, maybe it has another mouth inside the first one where the overflow tube is connected. We saw that the tower of london was built around its brain. [[User:Ehsteve23|Ehsteve23]] 14:49, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Production Errors==
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| In the pre-credit sequence there is a shot of Timmy in the lift with the Smiler smiling. Then the shot switches to the "test card girl". Then back to a shot with Timmy in the lift with the Smiler already having it's "disapproving" face. Only then does the shot switch to a close-up of the Smiler, still with the smiling face, turning it's head to the disapproving face.
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| : They also showed the Smiler with his rage face on while the camera was doing the upward shot as the lift floor was opening, only to show it just turning to that face in the next shot. Seems that scene was a bit rushed.
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| :: That's right. The scene outside the elevator is correct I think, but inside the elevator, the upward shot just before the shot of the parting floor shows the wrong face. [[User:Hack59|Hack59]] 14:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Setting ==
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| The machine gave Amy's age as about 1300, as Amy is 21 in 2010, this story should be given a setting in the 34th century not the 29th.
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| [[User:Doctorin the TARDIS|Doctorin the TARDIS]] 21:35, April 10, 2010 (UTC)Doctorin the TARDIS 10:35pm Sat 10th April 2010
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| Liz 10 had been queen for 300 years (by the Doctor's estimate), so if they left Earth in the 2900s and she was involved in capturing the whale as her recorded message suggests, then it could easily have been at least 3200, possibly later if you fudge the numbers a bit (late 2900s, and the Doctor underestimated by a century or so). [[User:Lokiofmidgaard|Lokiofmidgaard]] 21:43, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
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| Yeah I checked it 1,306 so a setting of 3295, 33rd century :)[[User:Doctorin the TARDIS|Doctorin the TARDIS]] 00:15, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| Amy's home year is, at this point, unclear. The beginning of ''The Eleventh Hour'' picks up right where ''End of Time Part Two'' ended--in early 2005. Unless there was off-screen time travelling in the beginning between his Big Ben near-miss and the crash landing in young Amy's yard. This is further complicated by Rory's hospital badge's date-of-issue being 1990, when the earliest one can work in medicine in the UK is 16 years old. And then ''that'' is ''even further'' complicated by the Doctor's accidental 2 year trip to the Moon and return to pick up Amy. It's currently unclear whether the Prisoner Zero incident took place in 2008 (making Amy from 2010), 2010 (making Amy from 2012), or from an entirely different time period (ie: the 1990s). Therefore, we can't nail down the exact year of ''The Beast Below''. All we have is the Doctor's assertion that it's the 29th century, and I have edited the infobox and article to reflect this. [[User:DigiFluid|DigiFluid]] 18:00, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| Your assessment is a bit off, the Doctor states the Starship UK was ''constructed'' in the 29th century due to the solar flares, not what the current century is.Also, while the exact year is debatable, ( I agree with 3295 personally) the actual century is easy to figure out ( 2000 + 1300 = 34th Century).[[User:Excalibur-117|Excalibur-117]] 18:32, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| Interesting. While I don't agree with a date so exact as 3295 (as stated in my previous comment, I don't think the exact year that Amy comes from has been made clear), I understand the reasoning behind the 34th century argument. There is one nagging issue with it, however: the state of mechanical disrepair of the ship. We see that, at least in some places, cables have never even bothered to be hooked up. Shortly thereafter when the computer is identifying Amy, it says aloud "1306 years old" while the screen reads 130''8''. While this is potentially simply a production error, it was also obvious enough on-screen to suggest that perhaps the Starship UK's computers weren't quite functioning properly--drawing the entire figure into question. [[User:DigiFluid|DigiFluid]] 18:48, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==The Crack==
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| The crack reappeared again in this episode, less subtle than the one on the Doctor's monitor in the last - at the end of the episode, in the hull of Starship UK itself. [[Special:Contributions/68.52.163.69|68.52.163.69]] 22:13, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
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| : Guess I might've been right about it purposely reoccuring! I'd say not all of them will be so blatant, we should keep an eye out. [[User:Ponk|Ponk]] 01:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Plot error? ==
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| I'm not so sure my question really justifies the subject line, but am I to assume that the star whale will have to continue to live off english citizens after the events of this episode? Or was this resolved and i missed it?
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| : I think that it isn't stated, whether the citizens are needed to feed the star whale. On the tongue of the whale is a lot of food. Maybe that is enough for it not to starve.[[Special:Contributions/78.43.114.215|78.43.114.215]] 12:18, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Zero Theme? ==
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| Might be a little early for this one but we've had the repetition of the word Zero in the first two episodes, could this be another series theme? Prisoner Zero was the obvious one in the first episode, in the second episode Timmy scores Zero and is then taken to Floor Zero by the vator. Thoughts? [[User:Queeg|Queeg]] 19:21, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
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| The Zero theme is similar to the theme from [[Last of the Time Lords|Last of the Time Lords]] where every single person is thinking of the doctor. [[User:Invictus152|Invictus152]] 03:13, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
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| This sounds like it could have something to do with the black guardian..... There was a reference to lots of zeros in the key to time series when the black guardian tried to trick the doctor into giving him the key.
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| == Plot weaknesses ==
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| A fine episode, but since I measure Moffat by the highest standards, here are some weaknesses of the plot -- not sure if that's appropriate here, but maybe someone finds them useful.
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| *A simple fly-by upon spotting the Starship UK would have revealed the whale right away and cut a good 40min from the episode. Especially given the Doctor's obsession to observe things carefully, this is a bit of a big miss.
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| *Water/Engines: So many things are rather contrived about this. Why would the water vibrate on the floor but not on the table? Why wouldn't the habitat area be buffered away from the engine section? Much worse: A spacecraft wouldn't use any engines at all for the largest part of the journey, engines are only needed when accelerating!
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| *How did the humans get into that pickle? Couldn't/wouldn't they have observed the whale at least for a short time to see what it was up to? And why does the queen need a memory wipe, but Hawthorne doesn't? Surely good leadership would have meant for the queen to live with the decision and bear the moral burden; it's clearly not beyond human capacity (e.g. Hawthorne). And why would the Starship disintegrate if they let the whale go? At most they'd be without propulsion.
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| *Whales in space. OK, creative freedom, no need to discuss why it would have teeth and a mammalian digestive tract filled with breathable oxygen.
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| [[User:Hack59|Hack59]] 14:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| The third one I can sort of answer: The humans were desperate, so they saw the whale and panicked, capturing and toturing it, not bothering to see if it would go by itself. As for the Queens memory wip, thats easy: It was so she could continue to run the state without being crippled by the emotional turmoil.[[User:Excalibur-117|Excalibur-117]] 16:24, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Another Production Error???? ==
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| If the Doctor and Amy arrive at the year 3925 which is the 33rd Century and it is revealved that Starship UK left 300 years previous to this date that would make the date that Starship UK left Earth at 2995 which would be the 30th Century. Did the Doctor actually say they left the 29th Century?? The UK where the last known residents to stay on Earth but could that mean it took them a 100 years to leave after the solar flares hit Earth??? -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 12:02, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| == An Error that isn't an Error: AMY'S AGE ==
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| After re-watching the Beast Below on Television and the Internet, I paused to try and see the correct age that is displayed on the monitor and it is blurred slightly, I believe it looks like a 6 and sometimes 6's from a distance can look like a 8 and with the speaker confiming she is 1306 years old is more than a confirmation. -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 12[[File:AmysAge.png|thumb|Amy's age]]:29, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| : That's why we have BBC HD :-)
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| : You can see for yourself what the computer screen says. The subtitles read " 'Age - 1,306.' ". The soundtrack says "Thirteen hundred and six". [[User:Hack59|Hack59]] 14:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| ITS A SIX
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| : OK, probably feeding the troll here, but here's a crop with an inset close-up:
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| : [[File:AmysAgeCloseup.png]]
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| == Plot Hole ==
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| Um - if there's only one Star Whale, how can Scotland have its own ship? [[User:BlueBox|BlueBox]] 19:58, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
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| :The Scottish ship can presumably fly itself, the only reason the UK ship used the Star Whale, by my understanding, was that they could just not get it to fly, so it's quite possible that the Scots just had better tech. [[User:Bwtvprod|Bwtvprod]] 20:45, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
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| Maybe the Scots knicked the engine of the British ship. I'm betting that the Torchwood institue had something to do with the engine on the Scottish ship. We never did learn what happened to all the tech Torchwood London had stashed at Canary Wharf (like the sunglider). [[User:Invictus152|Invictus152]] 03:17, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Hawthorne ==
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| Just a possible reference - Hawthorne, the civil servant who is in charge of the winders, could possibly be named after Nigel Hawthorne, who played Sir Humphrey Appleby in "Yes Minister"/"Yes Prime Minister". - JonB
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| == Poem Girl analogy refers to Graham's Life On Mars ==
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| Should a reference also be made to the use of similar Test Card F analogy to Poem Girl in 'Fear Her' writer Matthew Graham's co-created shows 'Life On Mars' and series 1 of 'Ashes to Ashes', since both these series plots involve time travel of a kind and the consequences of changing / not changing history? Is it an in-joke, a homage to Matthew Graham, or something more? [[Special:Contributions/86.26.137.154|86.26.137.154]] 07:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
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