|
|
| (48 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| {{talk}} | | {{ArchCat}} |
|
| |
|
| == 10th and 5th possible appearance in the episode == | | == Uncredited cast == |
|
| |
|
| In the [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1824359/ the imbd entry] that's about this episode, Tennant and Davidson are casted to appear in this episode, which could possibly mean that the 10th and 5th doctor make appearence in this episode. Yet it isn't considered as a cranted, could this be atleast atted to the myths? [[User:Vilinder|Vilinder]] 19:30, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
| | Please do not add to the main page until a source is found for the credit: |
| :Nope, neither. IMDB is on our blacklist, meaning we can't link to it. The reason for this is because people can insert false information to IMDB and therefore it can mean out sources and what we put on this wiki can be false. [[User:Mini-mitch|Mini-mitch]]\[[User talk:Mini-mitch|talk]] 19:33, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
| | * Baby [[Melody Pond]] – [[Harrison/Madison Mortimer]] |
| :
| | : Source found: credit returned to the page in the uncredited section. [[User:Amorkuz|Amorkuz]] [[User talk:Amorkuz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:25, June 27, 2017 (UTC) |
| :Actually, that imbd entry is about the final episode of the series, not this one [[User:Lord Aro|Lord Aro]] 12:25, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Cybermen ==
| |
| | |
| The word in the infobox doesn't link to the Cybermen page.[[User:Zodisgod|Zodisgod]] 21:42, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| :I know, and for good reason. We don't know what Cybermen are in the episode. They could be either [[Cyberman|Mondas Cybermen]] or [[Cyberman (Pete's World)|Cybus Cybermen]]. [[User:Mini-mitch|Mini-mitch]]\[[User talk:Mini-mitch|talk]] 22:12, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| [[File:Slider1-new.png|thumb|Look at the plates on their chest, it hasn't got a 'C' on it, instead it's got a circle.]]
| |
| ::They must be the Mondasian Cybermen, look at this picture: [[User:Cortion|Cortion]] 16:42, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| ::
| |
| | |
| No, they could be another variant, and stop adding spoiler pictures. I've deleted that image about three times today.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 16:52, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| :Doesn't this wiki contain spoilers? [[User:Cortion|Cortion]] 17:09, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| In special places. See: [[Tardis:Spoiler policy]] for more.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 17:11, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| There are several factors which play into the reasoning that these are not our universe's Cybermen. 1: The voice of Cybus Cybermen is deeper than the Mondas Cybermen, 2: heir vocabulary also seems to conform to Pete's Cybermen, and, naturally, 3: the appearance, which is almost identical to that of the Cybus Cybermen (save for the logo on the chest, which may have been a production error or a slight upgrade of the Cybermen). Should these have been Cybermen from our universe, wouldn't they still have had the appearance displayed in the Series 1 episode [[Dalek]]? That's all I have to say. [[User:Xaladar|Xaladar]] 19:19, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Enemies ==
| |
| | |
| No confirmation that Cybermen, Sontarans & Silurians are enemies. [[User:TemporalSpleen|TemporalSpleen]] 16:30, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| Added a reference at the bottom of the list (next to "Eye Patch Lady") but it counts for all of them.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 16:38, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| Yes well done you have added a source that states these will appear in the episode but in no way what so ever does it state that they will be enemies in the episode, therefore it needs removing unless stated otherwise -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 19:15, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| :Why? They've appeared as enemies in the past so it's only natural people will think they are enemies. If they appeared in any toher episode, people would assume they are the enemies. It's not changing till we have confirmation they are not enemies, until then we go with what we know. They've always been enemies so why not this time? [[User:Mini-mitch|Mini-mitch]]\[[User talk:Mini-mitch|talk]] 19:19, May 31, 2011 (UTC) | |
| | |
| ::Because we have no facts or evidence to say they are against the doctor at all and there are more sources on the internet that show they are on the doctor and rory's side than anything else. I think for argument sake they should just be left on the cast list until it IS ACTUALLY confirmed! -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 19:22, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| :::There is no confirmation that they are on the Doctor's side, just speculation. [[User:Mini-mitch|Mini-mitch]]\[[User talk:Mini-mitch|talk]] 19:28, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| I agree with [[User:Michael Downey]] as the synopsis states he's collecting soldiers from long-founded debts. To me this implies his former enemies. I suggest we remove them from the enemies list and put them in story notes as reappearances.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 20:05, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| I've just been looking at TV guides for a confirmation of the returning monsters being allies, although I'm sure I read it somewhere I had no luck in finding it. Since we have nothing to support either arguement, I am in favour of just leaving the monsters off the enemies section of the infobox and leaving them in the cast list until broadcast. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 20:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| Moved them to continuity. I left the "eye patch lady" there as she's a confirmed baddie.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 20:26, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| I agree with Skittles and Revan. [[Special:Contributions/90.192.144.253|90.192.144.253]] 16:23, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == River and Amy Dying == | |
| | |
| The two rumours about River and Amy dying in this episode have already been proven false as they have been seen in filming for all the other episodes of this series. River appears in episode 8 and 13 and Amy appears in all except episode 12. -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 19:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| ''Removed the speculation that followed this comment.''----<u>[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small></u> 15:56, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| Yeah, he's right. [[User:TenCents|Kenjiro]] [[User talk:TenCents|(talk)]] 16:53, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Spoilers removed ==
| |
| | |
| I am all in favour in having myths displayed on the page but I think the rumour regarding river being amys daughter should be removed as it is too much of a big spoiler for the page. Also the myth regarding rivers identity will be revealed should be removed as karen gillan and pete hoar have confirmed her identity will be revealed in interviews, therefore it's not really a myth it's fact. -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 19:20, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| :Any rumour can be regarded as "too big". Remember, they have filmed false scenes, meaning that it could be a red herring. As for River's identity, it's still a spoiler, a spoiler is a spoiler until the episode airs. [[User:Mini-mitch|Mini-mitch]]\[[User talk:Mini-mitch|talk]] 19:29, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Continuity addition - The only water in the forest is the river ==
| |
| | |
| In The Doctors Wife, The TARDIS/Idris says to Rory "The only water in the forest is the river", which River also repeats to explain why the prayer leaf won't say Melody Pond, but river song (without actually saying that) and that she is their daughter.[[User:Clarkey3262129707|Clarkey3262129707]] 00:01, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : Yes, The TARDIS/Idris' statement was a reference to the Gamma Forests, where Lorna Bucket is from and also which River references heavily when she arrives at the end of the episode to talk to the Doctor. The people there define Doctor as "Mighty Warrior", which River reveals. She also reveals the prayer-leaf says River Song because the people of the Gamma Forests do not have a word for pond, because "the only water in the forest is the river". It appears River knows a lot about the forests due to how much she references them and her affinty to be commonly known as their translation of her birthname. [[User:TheLastDoctor|TheLastDoctor]] 06:21, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == The link ==
| |
| | |
| could SOMEONE fix the main page link PLEASE [[User:Joshoedit|Josho]] 03:27, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == The Doctor's Crib ==
| |
| | |
| Should a page be made for the Doctor's/Melody's/River's crib? I think it should be made, especially since the Gallireyian on the sides is probably his name, which cannot be translated by the TARDIS and adds to the mystery of his name. However I'm just guessing it is his name... [[User:TheLastDoctor|TheLastDoctor]] 06:48, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == River Song Dialogue Continuity ==
| |
| | |
| In The forest of the dead, River song mentions that the doctor could make whole armies turn and run, should this be in continuity? [[User:LoneWolf2056|LoneWolf2056]] 13:00, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : Yes definately that needs to be added. It may just be a coincidence but knowing Moffet he intended this from that moment.[[User:Zodisgod|Zodisgod]] 17:32, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Jack the Ripper ==
| |
| | |
| Somewhere in here it should be mentioned that this episode contradicts [[PDA]]: [[Matrix (novel)|Matrix]] and the recently published [[IDW]]: ''[[Ripper's Curse]]'', both of which give different accounts as to the fate of Jack the Ripper (neither of which involves being eaten by a gay Silurian). Actually, if you search this wiki you find Jack mentioned in a number of other stories as well - yet he has no article of his own. I think it's justified to create one. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.78.43|68.146.78.43]] 13:14, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == The Ood ==
| |
| | |
| A few eagle-eyed viewers have been pointing out that RTD is credited for The Ood in this episode - yet none appear on screen. This should be mentioned - maybe there's a deleted scene? [[Special:Contributions/68.146.78.43|68.146.78.43]] 13:28, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Translation - error? ==
| |
| | |
| Anyone noticed that words on a cloth in forest language were translated _after_ TARDIS and The Doctor were gone. It shouldn't be possible. I don't mind when sometimes when TARDIS is not around and writers forget about lack of translations without it (...or should we say "Her" now? :), but this is a major plot moment involving the translation of written words... and this seems like a big error. [[Special:Contributions/188.134.32.80|188.134.32.80]] 14:59, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : That definately needs to be put into the story notes as this is a massive error.[[User:Zodisgod|Zodisgod]] 17:34, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : I don't think it's an error. As Idris/Tardis/Sexy said in The Doctor's Wife, she reaches across all time and space. The only time i remember it not working, was when the link to the Doctor was cut off or something in The Christmas Invasion. Perhaps their could be plenty of residual energy left on the Tardis travellers, or it could take time before the ability to understand other languages disappears. Sarah Jane seemed to understand other aliens even though no Tardis was around, so maybe the longer they travel in the Tardis, the longer the effect stays with them? These are all theories, but i do think it's safe to say that Moffat wouldn't leave an error like that in without realizing. [[User:Rawrgoaway|Rawrgoaway]] 08:25, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : River did tell Amy that it takes a while for the translation thing to kick in, especially with the written language.[[User:Death058|Death058]] 08:38, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| : It is annoying, particularly considering that it seems to contradict "The Christmas Invasion" (as noted above). I don't doubt however that it can be explained with a bit of of hand-waving. The Sarah Jane Adventures might be a precident for the effect lingering with someone who's spent a great amount of time on the TARDIS,* but other explanations are possible. (She might have a gadget, or Mr. Smith might have the same function, etc.)
| |
| : It's firmly established that one needn't be ''in'' the TARDIS, just ''near'' her, and it's not unreasonable to assume that "near" can be taken to mean in time as well as space. This explanation can be invoked almost anywhere else this problem crops up, as we already know that at any given point in time between 1963 and 1989 or 2005 until who-knows-when, there are probably several TARDISes parked on (or about to park on or having just left) the Earth. We shouldn't be surprised to find the TARDIS nearby anywhen there are humans (particularly, for some reason, the 19th, 20th, 21st, 41st and 51st centuries).
| |
| : In any case, it deserves a mention in the continuity section. Was the issue ever addressed on-screen prior to "The Christmas Invasion"? Have there been any other examples of translation working in the absense of the TARDIS (of the current storyline), or not working in her presence?
| |
| : <small>* If this is how it works, I wonder what sort of effects it will have on little Melody, conceived on, and through much of her gestation telepathically linked to, the TARDIS. I bet she'll be a wiz at languages. Perhaps she could become an archaeologist.</small>
| |
| : [[Special:Contributions/70.252.149.218|70.252.149.218]] 15:32, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| :
| |
| :: "Was the issue ever addressed on-screen prior to "The Christmas Invasion"? Have there been any other examples of translation working in the absense of the TARDIS (of the current storyline), or not working in her presence?"
| |
| ::
| |
| :: First episode that springs to mind is "Genesis of the Daleks". The companions can understand the Daleks, Kaleds and Thals perfectly despite the TARDIS' absense. [[Special:Contributions/14.202.32.28|14.202.32.28]] 08:35, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| :
| |
| : In "The Christmas Invasion", both the TARDIS and The Doctor were present, the doctor was simply incapacitated (and therefore the TARDIS was affected due to the link between them). Thus the translation matrix was just generally knocked out.
| |
| : I don't think it's ever been established that you need to be near the TARDIS for the translation matrix to work, in fact I'm sure you can find examples of the TARDIS being taken away and translation being unaffected. I think it's a change the TARDIS brings about in it's occupants (whether it's permanent is another matter).
| |
| | |
| == "General Run Away" ==
| |
| | |
| The scene where the Doctor tells the General to tell his troops to run away so he can be forever known as "General Run Away" isn't in the article. Can someone place it there, in its proper place? thanks [[User:Dposse|dposse]] 16:53, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| :I just added it. And it's "Colonel". -- [[User:MisterRandom2|MisterRandom2]] 01:00, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| ==Mark Gatiss as danny boy==
| |
| Can someone add Mark Gatiss into the cast list? Though he was uncredited, he once again provided the voice for Danny boy. Thanks [[Special:Contributions/82.42.249.145|82.42.249.145]] 19:09, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == River's Rhyme ==
| |
| | |
| This is the rhyme recited by River over the battle scene and as the Doctor races towards Amy to warn her that baby she is holding is a fake (not knowing that she already knew). Don't know if it's relevant, but I thought it was pretty cool. Don't have an account so can't add it...
| |
| | |
| ''Demons run when a good man goes to war.''
| |
| | |
| ''Night will fall and drown the sun,''
| |
| | |
| ''When a good man goes to war.''
| |
| | |
| ''Friendship dies and true love lies;''
| |
| | |
| ''Night will fall and the dark will rise,''
| |
| | |
| ''When a good man goes to war.''
| |
| | |
| ''Demons run but count the cost;''
| |
| | |
| ''The battle's won but the child is lost.''
| |
| | |
| == In the Continuity Section.... ==
| |
| | |
| This is the current state of an item in the Continuity section:
| |
| | |
| *In the [[DW]]: ''[[Forest of the Dead]] '' River Song comments that the Doctor would make whole armies turn and run, which may be a reference to this episode.
| |
| **The quote is "I've seen whole armies...." She wasn't here and this likely refers to a different story.[[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 21:42, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| ***The River in the Library was definitely at Demons Run. The River at Demons Run was definitely aware of the events that took place there; possibly from her past (the Doctor's future). So, in the Library, she could've been referring to Demon's Run. At Demon's run, she was either referring to Demon's Run itself, or events from the Doctor's future (or any past experiences he might have shared with her). ||--[[User:Death058|Death058]] 06:34, June 7, 2011 (UTC)--||
| |
| | |
| == Story notes and the Avery's ==
| |
| | |
| I'm wanting to make a note about the Avery's' appearance in this episode. Since TCotBS was supposed to be in the autumn half, but was later moved forward, this means that their appearance was written into the episode ''after'' the decision to move the episodes was made. Is this noteworthy? --[[User:The Thirteenth Doctor|The Thirteenth Doctor]] 19:39, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| * Unless someone has a source to the contrary, it's unlikely the Averys were added later, because aside from the one scene with the turbolift, there is also a scene in which Jenny, accompanied by the Sontaran, mention Avery's men. A standalone shot involving an elevator is one thing, but would they have gone through the expense of rehiring the two other actors - and the cost of putting on the Sontaran make-up again - just for a pick up? The decision to shift the episodes around most likely occurred before A Good Man was produced, unless once again someone has a source that says different. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.71.145|68.146.71.145]] 04:12, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
| |
| | |
| == Alternate theme version used for episode ==
| |
| Something that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact an alternate version of the opening credits never before seen is used with this episode - when the title "Doctor Who" appears on screen, the TARDIS sound effect is incorporated into the mix. This isn't heard on earlier episodes. I just compared my DVRs of both Doctor's Wife and A Good Man and confirmed the TARDIS sound is audible in the finale opening. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.71.145|68.146.71.145]] 04:00, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
| |
