Talk:A Good Man Goes to War (TV story)/Archive 1

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10th and 5th possible appearance in the episode

In the the imbd entry that's about this episode, Tennant and Davidson are casted to appear in this episode, which could possibly mean that the 10th and 5th doctor make appearence in this episode. Yet it isn't considered as a cranted, could this be atleast atted to the myths? Vilinder 19:30, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, neither. IMDB is on our blacklist, meaning we can't link to it. The reason for this is because people can insert false information to IMDB and therefore it can mean out sources and what we put on this wiki can be false. Mini-mitch\talk 19:33, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, that imbd entry is about the final episode of the series, not this one Lord Aro 12:25, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Cybermen

The word in the infobox doesn't link to the Cybermen page.Zodisgod 21:42, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

I know, and for good reason. We don't know what Cybermen are in the episode. They could be either Mondas Cybermen or Cybus Cybermen. Mini-mitch\talk 22:12, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

They must be the Mondasian Cybermen, look at this picture: Cortion 16:42, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

No, they could be another variant, and stop adding spoiler pictures. I've deleted that image about three times today.----Skittles the hog--Talk 16:52, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't this wiki contain spoilers? Cortion 17:09, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

In special places. See: Tardis:Spoiler policy for more.----Skittles the hog--Talk 17:11, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

There are several factors which play into the reasoning that these are not our universe's Cybermen. 1: The voice of Cybus Cybermen is deeper than the Mondas Cybermen, 2: heir vocabulary also seems to conform to Pete's Cybermen, and, naturally, 3: the appearance, which is almost identical to that of the Cybus Cybermen (save for the logo on the chest, which may have been a production error or a slight upgrade of the Cybermen). Should these have been Cybermen from our universe, wouldn't they still have had the appearance displayed in the Series 1 episode Dalek? That's all I have to say. Xaladar 19:19, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Enemies

No confirmation that Cybermen, Sontarans & Silurians are enemies. TemporalSpleen 16:30, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Added a reference at the bottom of the list (next to "Eye Patch Lady") but it counts for all of them.----Skittles the hog--Talk 16:38, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yes well done you have added a source that states these will appear in the episode but in no way what so ever does it state that they will be enemies in the episode, therefore it needs removing unless stated otherwise -- Michael Downey 19:15, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Why? They've appeared as enemies in the past so it's only natural people will think they are enemies. If they appeared in any toher episode, people would assume they are the enemies. It's not changing till we have confirmation they are not enemies, until then we go with what we know. They've always been enemies so why not this time? Mini-mitch\talk 19:19, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Because we have no facts or evidence to say they are against the doctor at all and there are more sources on the internet that show they are on the doctor and rory's side than anything else. I think for argument sake they should just be left on the cast list until it IS ACTUALLY confirmed! -- Michael Downey 19:22, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

There is no confirmation that they are on the Doctor's side, just speculation. Mini-mitch\talk 19:28, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with User:Michael Downey as the synopsis states he's collecting soldiers from long-founded debts. To me this implies his former enemies. I suggest we remove them from the enemies list and put them in story notes as reappearances.----Skittles the hog--Talk 20:05, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

I've just been looking at TV guides for a confirmation of the returning monsters being allies, although I'm sure I read it somewhere I had no luck in finding it. Since we have nothing to support either arguement, I am in favour of just leaving the monsters off the enemies section of the infobox and leaving them in the cast list until broadcast. --Revan\Talk 20:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Moved them to continuity. I left the "eye patch lady" there as she's a confirmed baddie.----Skittles the hog--Talk 20:26, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Skittles and Revan. 90.192.144.253 16:23, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

River and Amy Dying

The two rumours about River and Amy dying in this episode have already been proven false as they have been seen in filming for all the other episodes of this series. River appears in episode 8 and 13 and Amy appears in all except episode 12. -- Michael Downey 19:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Removed the speculation that followed this comment.----Skittles the hog--Talk 15:56, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, he's right. Kenjiro (talk) 16:53, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Spoilers removed

I am all in favour in having myths displayed on the page but I think the rumour regarding river being amys daughter should be removed as it is too much of a big spoiler for the page. Also the myth regarding rivers identity will be revealed should be removed as karen gillan and pete hoar have confirmed her identity will be revealed in interviews, therefore it's not really a myth it's fact. -- Michael Downey 19:20, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Any rumour can be regarded as "too big". Remember, they have filmed false scenes, meaning that it could be a red herring. As for River's identity, it's still a spoiler, a spoiler is a spoiler until the episode airs. Mini-mitch\talk 19:29, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Continuity addition - The only water in the forest is the river

In The Doctors Wife, The TARDIS/Idris says to Rory "The only water in the forest is the river", which River also repeats to explain why the prayer leaf won't say Melody Pond, but river song (without actually saying that) and that she is their daughter.Clarkey3262129707 00:01, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, The TARDIS/Idris' statement was a reference to the Gamma Forests, where Lorna Bucket is from and also which River references heavily when she arrives at the end of the episode to talk to the Doctor. The people there define Doctor as "Mighty Warrior", which River reveals. She also reveals the prayer-leaf says River Song because the people of the Gamma Forests do not have a word for pond, because "the only water in the forest is the river". It appears River knows a lot about the forests due to how much she references them and her affinty to be commonly known as their translation of her birthname. TheLastDoctor 06:21, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

The link

could SOMEONE fix the main page link PLEASE Josho 03:27, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

The Doctor's Crib

Should a page be made for the Doctor's/Melody's/River's crib? I think it should be made, especially since the Gallireyian on the sides is probably his name, which cannot be translated by the TARDIS and adds to the mystery of his name. However I'm just guessing it is his name... TheLastDoctor 06:48, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I have investigated, learned the Circular Gallifreyan alphabet. It's not a name but numbers but ill let you find that out on your own, it's quite easy. *spoilers ;) Love, Joanne Smith Ps: ignore what's on the bottom those are just theories, these are the facts (what I wrote) I didn't want to erase the other persons writing because that would be rude

Why should we assume it is his name? It could just as easily be the Gallifreyan equivalent of Babies R Us.

Sorry, I'm new here, not sure of the posting protocol: It seems to me that in answer to the Doctor's repeated (agonized/angry) demands that she tell him who she is, River says: "I AM telling you..." and places his hand on (the spindle above) the longer Gallifreyan etching on the crib. Everyone seems to think that's the Dr.'s name, which makes no sense: why would she be telling/showing him with HIS name and not her own?! So, the longer Gallifreyan text must be HER name (either River or Melody, no way to tell which) and the shorter one on the cot end must/may his, if his earlier line: "mine. It was my cot." can be trusted. (See Rule No. 1.) (Elenor)

River Song Dialogue Continuity

In The forest of the dead, River song mentions that the doctor could make whole armies turn and run, should this be in continuity? LoneWolf2056 13:00, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yes definately that needs to be added. It may just be a coincidence but knowing Moffet he intended this from that moment.Zodisgod 17:32, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Jack the Ripper

Somewhere in here it should be mentioned that this episode contradicts PROSE: Matrix and the recently published COMIC: Ripper's Curse, both of which give different accounts as to the fate of Jack the Ripper (neither of which involves being eaten by a gay Silurian). Actually, if you search this wiki you find Jack mentioned in a number of other stories as well - yet he has no article of his own. I think it's justified to create one. 68.146.78.43 13:14, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

The Ood

A few eagle-eyed viewers have been pointing out that RTD is credited for The Ood in this episode - yet none appear on screen. This should be mentioned - maybe there's a deleted scene? 68.146.78.43 13:28, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Translation - error?

Anyone noticed that words on a cloth in forest language were translated _after_ TARDIS and The Doctor were gone. It shouldn't be possible. I don't mind when sometimes when TARDIS is not around and writers forget about lack of translations without it (...or should we say "Her" now? :), but this is a major plot moment involving the translation of written words... and this seems like a big error. 188.134.32.80 14:59, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

That definately needs to be put into the story notes as this is a massive error.Zodisgod 17:34, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's an error. As Idris/Tardis/Sexy said in The Doctor's Wife, she reaches across all time and space. The only time i remember it not working, was when the link to the Doctor was cut off or something in The Christmas Invasion. Perhaps their could be plenty of residual energy left on the Tardis travellers, or it could take time before the ability to understand other languages disappears. Sarah Jane seemed to understand other aliens even though no Tardis was around, so maybe the longer they travel in the Tardis, the longer the effect stays with them? These are all theories, but i do think it's safe to say that Moffat wouldn't leave an error like that in without realizing. Rawrgoaway 08:25, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

River did tell Amy that it takes a while for the translation thing to kick in, especially with the written language.Death058 08:38, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

It is annoying, particularly considering that it seems to contradict "The Christmas Invasion" (as noted above). I don't doubt however that it can be explained with a bit of of hand-waving. The Sarah Jane Adventures might be a precident for the effect lingering with someone who's spent a great amount of time on the TARDIS,* but other explanations are possible. (She might have a gadget, or Mr. Smith might have the same function, etc.)

It's firmly established that one needn't be in the TARDIS, just near her, and it's not unreasonable to assume that "near" can be taken to mean in time as well as space. This explanation can be invoked almost anywhere else this problem crops up, as we already know that at any given point in time between 1963 and 1989 or 2005 until who-knows-when, there are probably several TARDISes parked on (or about to park on or having just left) the Earth. We shouldn't be surprised to find the TARDIS nearby anywhen there are humans (particularly, for some reason, the 19th, 20th, 21st, 41st and 51st centuries).

The translation circuit was working for Amy all along, despite her physical separation from the TARDIS while she was a Ganger. If physical closeness or presence during transport was strictly required, there would have been a problem with that. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 23:29, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

In any case, it deserves a mention in the continuity section. Was the issue ever addressed on-screen prior to "The Christmas Invasion"? Have there been any other examples of translation working in the absense of the TARDIS (of the current storyline), or not working in her presence?

* If this is how it works, I wonder what sort of effects it will have on little Melody, conceived on, and through much of her gestation telepathically linked to, the TARDIS. I bet she'll be a wiz at languages. Perhaps she could become an archaeologist.

70.252.149.218 15:32, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

"Was the issue ever addressed on-screen prior to "The Christmas Invasion"? Have there been any other examples of translation working in the absense of the TARDIS (of the current storyline), or not working in her presence?"

First episode that springs to mind is "Genesis of the Daleks". The companions can understand the Daleks, Kaleds and Thals perfectly despite the TARDIS' absense. 14.202.32.28 08:36, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

In "The Christmas Invasion", both the TARDIS and The Doctor were present, the doctor was simply incapacitated (and therefore the TARDIS was affected due to the link between them). Thus the translation matrix was just generally knocked out.

I don't think it's ever been established that you need to be near the TARDIS for the translation matrix to work, in fact I'm sure you can find examples of the TARDIS being taken away and translation being unaffected. I think it's a change the TARDIS brings about in it's occupants (whether it's permanent is another matter).

More to the point, the Doctor was suffering a "neural implosion", which sounds like a major brain malfunction. All the Christmas Invasion suggests is that his brain is integral to the translation circuits. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:42, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Joanne Smith again. If you really notice, Amy doesn't really check the cloth until she actually looks at it. If you notice, she keeps ignoring the cloth. Remember, the TARDIS emits the language into your head which means if her head is drifting off into space (not paying attention) it won't have an effect. :)

The episode DOES say one thing. Unless the Vortex Manipulator has a similar circuit - and it might - it puts paid to the theory that the TARDIS rewrites it's crew's language centres with local information while they're travelling to a new destination. Once they get home, they can still speak their usual languages. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:42, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

"General Run Away"

The scene where the Doctor tells the General to tell his troops to run away so he can be forever known as "General Run Away" isn't in the article. Can someone place it there, in its proper place? thanks dposse 16:53, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

I just added it. And it's "Colonel". -- MisterRandom2 01:00, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Mark Gatiss as danny boy

Can someone add Mark Gatiss into the cast list? Though he was uncredited, he once again provided the voice for Danny boy. Thanks 82.42.249.145 19:09, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

River's Rhyme

This is the rhyme recited by River over the battle scene and as the Doctor races towards Amy to warn her that baby she is holding is a fake (not knowing that she already knew). Don't know if it's relevant, but I thought it was pretty cool. Don't have an account so can't add it...

Demons run when a good man goes to war.

Night will fall and drown the sun,

When a good man goes to war.

Friendship dies and true love lies;

Night will fall and the dark will rise,

When a good man goes to war.

Demons run but count the cost;

The battle's won but the child is lost.

In the Continuity Section....

This is the current state of an item in the Continuity section:

• In the TV: Forest of the Dead River Song comments that the Doctor would make whole armies turn and run, which may be a reference to this episode.
  • The quote is "I've seen whole armies...." She wasn't here and this likely refers to a different story.Boblipton 21:42, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
    • The River in the Library was definitely at Demons Run. The River at Demons Run was definitely aware of the events that took place there; possibly from her past (the Doctor's future). So, in the Library, she could've been referring to Demon's Run. At Demon's run, she was either referring to Demon's Run itself, or events from the Doctor's future (or any past experiences he might have shared with her). ||--Death058 06:34, June 7, 2011 (UTC)--||

The older River could have seen video. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:45, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Story notes and the Avery's

I'm wanting to make a note about the Avery's' appearance in this episode. Since TCotBS was supposed to be in the autumn half, but was later moved forward, this means that their appearance was written into the episode after the decision to move the episodes was made. Is this noteworthy? --The Thirteenth Doctor 19:39, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

• Unless someone has a source to the contrary, it's unlikely the Averys were added later, because aside from the one scene with the turbolift, there is also a scene in which Jenny, accompanied by the Sontaran, mention Avery's men. A standalone shot involving an elevator is one thing, but would they have gone through the expense of rehiring the two other actors - and the cost of putting on the Sontaran make-up again - just for a pick up? The decision to shift the episodes around most likely occurred before A Good Man was produced, unless once again someone has a source that says different. 68.146.71.145 04:12, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
  • Just to add to this, according to Shannon Sullivan's "A Brief History of Time (Travel)" website, Black Spot and Night Terrors - the episodes that changed places - were the first two episodes of the season produced. So that increases the likelihood that Moffat moved them around in time to include Avery in AGMGTW. 68.146.71.145 18:03, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Alternate theme version used for episode

Something that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact an alternate version of the opening credits never before seen is used with this episode - when the title "Doctor Who" appears on screen, the TARDIS sound effect is incorporated into the mix. This isn't heard on earlier episodes. I just compared my DVRs of both Doctor's Wife and A Good Man and confirmed the TARDIS sound is audible in the finale opening. 68.146.71.145 04:00, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

• And it was not used again in any episode of the second half, so I'll go ahead and add this piece of information. 68.146.80.110 04:08, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes

User: Bold Clone keeps reverting my edits so I am archiving the content here:

• The clerics wear an insignia on their right sleeve resembling the 21st century United States Air Force Symbol. It is incorporated into their beret flashes and is also featured on a flag backdrop behind the Headless Monks when Colonel Manton is addressing the troops.

It's a coincidence; it's not relevant. It doesn't belong on the page. --Bold Clone 16:03, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Bold Clone is flatly in the right here. I'm reminded of the Eighth Doctor in the TVM: ". . . humans . . . always seeing patterns" where there are none. Unless we've got proof that Barbara Kidd intentionally based the design on the copyrighted USAF eagle, let it go, please.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 04:15:50 Tue 02 Aug 2011 

Timeline

I'm sorry to say, but its kinda making me a little cross because you guys aren't realizing that the adult River/Melody towards the end of the story was actually 'AFTER' Day of the Moon

• Evidence 1 - She's wearing the exact same clothes she wore from the end of DOTM (And when do characters in a TV show, save for the Doctor, wear the exact same clothes in other episodes...)

• Evidence 2 - The Doctor confirmed this my making the "kissy noises", which was pretty much asking her "is this after that point in time?", to which she responds basically yes...

So can we make the appropriate change? Thank you TheTARDIScontroller 13:55, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

• • Pure conjecture without anything on screen to support it. We don't know when the River Song who appears at the end came from. All we know is the River who Rory meets earlier in the episode recognizes him and acts as if she hasn't seen him in a long time. For all we know for that River the events of The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang haven't happened yet, whereas the River who appears at the end could have come from 5 minutes before the events of Silence in the Library. Unless someone says something on screen, or "word of God" occurs (i.e. statement from Moffat), or something in the expanded universe says so, we can't make assumptions. 68.146.71.145 18:07, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Lorna Bucket

The page claims that the Doctor remembered meeting Lorna in the Gamma Forests when she was a child. I'm almost certain he was acting when he said he remembered her, making her last moments easier on her. It seemed to me he were making somewhat of an educated guess when he said, "Of course I remember, I remember everyone... Hey, we ran, you and me... Didn't we run, Lorna?" because immediately after she closed her eyes in death, the Doctor turned to Vastra and said, "Who was she?"

I feel I should mention, I was rewatching as I wrote this to make the quoted material accurate, and I reason the "educated guess" bit because the characters of the show have referenced the large amount of running they do on multiple occasions.

I'm pretty sure it's something he has not done yet. And he will because Lorna told him about it. {{SUBST:Template:Cyrus Arc}} 18:11, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

If he hasn't done it yet, he doesn't remember it yet. Thus, he didn't remember her, and the article is inaccurate when it says that he does. 76.177.38.186 18:25, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Just because he doesn't remember her, doesn't mean he hasn't done it yet and doesn't mean he doesn't remember the Forest and what happens there. River speaks of how he doesn't really notice most people back in her first two episodes. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:48, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Companions

Why is Amy counted as a Companion? She was a hostage for the most of the episode and in the later half, she's kinda under the witness procteion program.

As for the others that came with the Doctor and Rory to resuce Amy and Melody, they ACTED the part of companions, helping the Doctor as they owed him debts. Not that hard to figure out, now is it?

Cut the attitude. Amy and Rory are companions because this is one of their many adventures while they travel with the Doctor. That's why they are under companions for this episode. MM/Want to talk? 22:22, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

"Anglican Marines"

The Fat One says either "We're the fat, thin, gay, Anglican, marines," or "We're the fat, thin, gay, Anglican Marines." It's not clear which. As such, we cannot conclusively say that the name of the military group is "the Anglican Marines".(Unsigned by) ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:57, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Paternoster Gang stories

Although this story has Vastra, Jenny and Strax in it, does it count as a Paternoster Gang story when Strax hasn't yet become Vastra and Jenny's butler? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:58, July 16, 2014 (UTC)

He may not be their butler at this point but it does feature all three of them so it's a Paternoster Gang story in my book. Slughorn42 ☎ 16:59, July 16, 2014 (UTC)