Talk:Mike Yates: Difference between revisions
From Tardis Wiki, the free Doctor Who reference
Tag: sourceedit |
Shambala108 (talk | contribs) Tag: sourceedit |
||
| Line 6: | Line 6: | ||
In [[Happy Endings (novel)]] Mike states only that he's living with someone called "Tom". For all we know, "Tom" could be his brother, nephew, a lodger, anything. From what we've seen of Mike he was very much a "ladies' man", and there is nothing in any medium that suggests he is ever anything other than heterosexual. Speaking in polari does not mean that someone is homosexual. Polari was widely used by circus and fairground people, essentially the British equivalent of the American "kayfabe". In addition, sailors and ''members of the British military'' used polari. So all we have are Mike(and Benton) speaking in a secretive dialect ''used by members of the British military'' and Mike living with a guy called "Tom". The former is obvious. The latter is ridiculous, as it would imply that every fictional male who lives with another male(Oscar and Felix, Gary and Tony, Chandler and Joey, Basil and Manuel, Fletch and Godber, Lewis and Oswald, Avon and Vila etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) is necessarily in a homosexual relationship. In any case the [[Hornets' Nest]], [[Demon Quest]] and [[Serpent Crest]] Audios take place over the same period of time, with no mention of anything to do with [[Happy Endings (novel)]], and Mike clearly and obviously heterosexual. Franklin's own (admittedly unofficial) ''Great Tea Bag Mystery'' and ''The Killing Stone'' show a post-UNIT Mike who is undeniably heterosexual. And in fact, Letts and Dicks created the Mike Yates character, and recruited Franklin, to be a potential love interest for Jo Grant. Mike Yates being anything other than heterosexual exists only in the mind of Paul Cornell, and even then '''he never put anything unambiguous or clear in writing'''. Mike lives with another guy? So do many many straight guys. Mike speaks a secretive language used by members of the British military? There's a surprise. [[Special:Contributions/41.135.172.4|41.135.172.4]]<sup>[[User talk:41.135.172.4#top|talk to me]]</sup> 15:59, May 31, 2014 (UTC) | In [[Happy Endings (novel)]] Mike states only that he's living with someone called "Tom". For all we know, "Tom" could be his brother, nephew, a lodger, anything. From what we've seen of Mike he was very much a "ladies' man", and there is nothing in any medium that suggests he is ever anything other than heterosexual. Speaking in polari does not mean that someone is homosexual. Polari was widely used by circus and fairground people, essentially the British equivalent of the American "kayfabe". In addition, sailors and ''members of the British military'' used polari. So all we have are Mike(and Benton) speaking in a secretive dialect ''used by members of the British military'' and Mike living with a guy called "Tom". The former is obvious. The latter is ridiculous, as it would imply that every fictional male who lives with another male(Oscar and Felix, Gary and Tony, Chandler and Joey, Basil and Manuel, Fletch and Godber, Lewis and Oswald, Avon and Vila etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) is necessarily in a homosexual relationship. In any case the [[Hornets' Nest]], [[Demon Quest]] and [[Serpent Crest]] Audios take place over the same period of time, with no mention of anything to do with [[Happy Endings (novel)]], and Mike clearly and obviously heterosexual. Franklin's own (admittedly unofficial) ''Great Tea Bag Mystery'' and ''The Killing Stone'' show a post-UNIT Mike who is undeniably heterosexual. And in fact, Letts and Dicks created the Mike Yates character, and recruited Franklin, to be a potential love interest for Jo Grant. Mike Yates being anything other than heterosexual exists only in the mind of Paul Cornell, and even then '''he never put anything unambiguous or clear in writing'''. Mike lives with another guy? So do many many straight guys. Mike speaks a secretive language used by members of the British military? There's a surprise. [[Special:Contributions/41.135.172.4|41.135.172.4]]<sup>[[User talk:41.135.172.4#top|talk to me]]</sup> 15:59, May 31, 2014 (UTC) | ||
And of course [[Russell T Davies]] confirmed in interviews and promotional material that [[Jack Harkness (Captain Jack Harkness)]] is the '''first''' non-heterosexual television companion of the Doctor. Which means Mike Yates couldn't be. And neither could any other pre-Captain Jack television companion. I realise some people think it's "funny" and behave like 12-year-old schoolboys writing "Yates is gay" on the bathroom wall then giggling, but there is '''nothing''' at all that says, or even suggests, that. [[Special:Contributions/41.135.172.4|41.135.172.4]]<sup>[[User talk:41.135.172.4#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:02, May 31, 2014 (UTC) | :And of course [[Russell T Davies]] confirmed in interviews and promotional material that [[Jack Harkness (Captain Jack Harkness)]] is the '''first''' non-heterosexual television companion of the Doctor. Which means Mike Yates couldn't be. And neither could any other pre-Captain Jack television companion. I realise some people think it's "funny" and behave like 12-year-old schoolboys writing "Yates is gay" on the bathroom wall then giggling, but there is '''nothing''' at all that says, or even suggests, that. [[Special:Contributions/41.135.172.4|41.135.172.4]]<sup>[[User talk:41.135.172.4#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:02, May 31, 2014 (UTC) | ||
:So Paul Cornell doesn't get to decide the sexuality of former companions, but RTD does? Ace can't have had any unexpected feelings about [[Karra]] and never mind that, as far as [[Rona Munro]] was concerned, that was the whole point of the story. Well, why not, since you acknowledge that the point of the ''Happy Ending'' scenes is to suggest Mike is in a relationship with Tom, but the fact it can be interpreted otherwise means nothing of the kind is going on. | ::So Paul Cornell doesn't get to decide the sexuality of former companions, but RTD does? Ace can't have had any unexpected feelings about [[Karra]] and never mind that, as far as [[Rona Munro]] was concerned, that was the whole point of the story. Well, why not, since you acknowledge that the point of the ''Happy Ending'' scenes is to suggest Mike is in a relationship with Tom, but the fact it can be interpreted otherwise means nothing of the kind is going on. | ||
:(Where do you get the idea that Polari was used by the military, by the way? The closest I can find on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari#Usage the Wikipedia page] is "It was also used extensively in the British Merchant Navy, where many gay men joined ocean liners and cruise ships as waiters, stewards and entertainers" which doesn't ''quite'' help your case that much.) | ::(Where do you get the idea that Polari was used by the military, by the way? The closest I can find on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari#Usage the Wikipedia page] is "It was also used extensively in the British Merchant Navy, where many gay men joined ocean liners and cruise ships as waiters, stewards and entertainers" which doesn't ''quite'' help your case that much.) | ||
:I don't think making Mike gay is "funny". I think it adds an interesting twist to the character, and increases the number of LGBT characters out there, which is surely a good thing. [[Special:Contributions/31.48.167.141|31.48.167.141]]<sup>[[User talk:31.48.167.141#top|talk to me]]</sup> 20:04, August 20, 2015 (UTC) | ::I don't think making Mike gay is "funny". I think it adds an interesting twist to the character, and increases the number of LGBT characters out there, which is surely a good thing. [[Special:Contributions/31.48.167.141|31.48.167.141]]<sup>[[User talk:31.48.167.141#top|talk to me]]</sup> 20:04, August 20, 2015 (UTC) | ||
:::The important point here is that claiming his character is homosexual based on ''Happy Endings'' is reading too much into the story, which we discourage on this wiki. If another source states he is gay, then it can be added, but the mere fact of living with a man does '''not''' explicitly claim he is gay, and therefore it should be removed from the article. (41's claim that Yates can't be gay because RTD says Jack is the first doesn't count on this wiki. For [[Tardis:In-universe perspective|in-universe articles]], we only use stories as sources, not behind-the-scenes information.) [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:49, August 21, 2015 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 02:49, 21 August 2015
Full name
Where we gettin the full name from?
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 04:25: Fri 17 Aug 2012
Sexual orientation
In Happy Endings (novel) Mike states only that he's living with someone called "Tom". For all we know, "Tom" could be his brother, nephew, a lodger, anything. From what we've seen of Mike he was very much a "ladies' man", and there is nothing in any medium that suggests he is ever anything other than heterosexual. Speaking in polari does not mean that someone is homosexual. Polari was widely used by circus and fairground people, essentially the British equivalent of the American "kayfabe". In addition, sailors and members of the British military used polari. So all we have are Mike(and Benton) speaking in a secretive dialect used by members of the British military and Mike living with a guy called "Tom". The former is obvious. The latter is ridiculous, as it would imply that every fictional male who lives with another male(Oscar and Felix, Gary and Tony, Chandler and Joey, Basil and Manuel, Fletch and Godber, Lewis and Oswald, Avon and Vila etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) is necessarily in a homosexual relationship. In any case the Hornets' Nest, Demon Quest and Serpent Crest Audios take place over the same period of time, with no mention of anything to do with Happy Endings (novel), and Mike clearly and obviously heterosexual. Franklin's own (admittedly unofficial) Great Tea Bag Mystery and The Killing Stone show a post-UNIT Mike who is undeniably heterosexual. And in fact, Letts and Dicks created the Mike Yates character, and recruited Franklin, to be a potential love interest for Jo Grant. Mike Yates being anything other than heterosexual exists only in the mind of Paul Cornell, and even then he never put anything unambiguous or clear in writing. Mike lives with another guy? So do many many straight guys. Mike speaks a secretive language used by members of the British military? There's a surprise. 41.135.172.4talk to me 15:59, May 31, 2014 (UTC)
- And of course Russell T Davies confirmed in interviews and promotional material that Jack Harkness (Captain Jack Harkness) is the first non-heterosexual television companion of the Doctor. Which means Mike Yates couldn't be. And neither could any other pre-Captain Jack television companion. I realise some people think it's "funny" and behave like 12-year-old schoolboys writing "Yates is gay" on the bathroom wall then giggling, but there is nothing at all that says, or even suggests, that. 41.135.172.4talk to me 16:02, May 31, 2014 (UTC)
- So Paul Cornell doesn't get to decide the sexuality of former companions, but RTD does? Ace can't have had any unexpected feelings about Karra and never mind that, as far as Rona Munro was concerned, that was the whole point of the story. Well, why not, since you acknowledge that the point of the Happy Ending scenes is to suggest Mike is in a relationship with Tom, but the fact it can be interpreted otherwise means nothing of the kind is going on.
- (Where do you get the idea that Polari was used by the military, by the way? The closest I can find on the Wikipedia page is "It was also used extensively in the British Merchant Navy, where many gay men joined ocean liners and cruise ships as waiters, stewards and entertainers" which doesn't quite help your case that much.)
- I don't think making Mike gay is "funny". I think it adds an interesting twist to the character, and increases the number of LGBT characters out there, which is surely a good thing. 31.48.167.141talk to me 20:04, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
- The important point here is that claiming his character is homosexual based on Happy Endings is reading too much into the story, which we discourage on this wiki. If another source states he is gay, then it can be added, but the mere fact of living with a man does not explicitly claim he is gay, and therefore it should be removed from the article. (41's claim that Yates can't be gay because RTD says Jack is the first doesn't count on this wiki. For in-universe articles, we only use stories as sources, not behind-the-scenes information.) Shambala108 ☎ 02:49, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
