Forum:Roland Rat: The Series

Index → Inclusion debates → Roland Rat: The Series

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If this thread's title doesn't specify it's spoilery, don't bring any up.

Opening Post

Introduction

On the 13 September 1986, the second episode of the first series of Roland Rat: The Series aired. In what this wiki has mistakenly identified as a continuity ident, Colin Baker appeared, in-character as the Sixth Doctor.

It wasn't a continuity ident, although it certainly looks like one. Let me explain.

The conceit of Roland Rat: The Series was that it was an actual talk show broadcast on BBC Three, and that Roland Rat, Errol the Hamster and the like all existed in-universe. To invoke this deception, they invited various personnel to introduce RR:tS in fictional continuity idents. It was one of these in which the Sixth Doctor appeared.

Why we should cover the whole thing

Someone made a reasonable mistake and presented incorrect facts. That's about it. There's a draft of what a page for the overall series would look like over at User:Epsilon the Eternal/Sandbox Four that I've contributed to rather significantly.

Validity

I'm fairly sure that there's no reason to doubt the DWUness of this. As Scrooge states at Talk:Untitled (1986 TV story):

[I]n such matters, when the evidence isn't black-and-white, the onus is on the people trying to prove that the story was meant to be outside the DWU, not the other way around. [Emphasis his]User:Scrooge MacDuck

But if people want to bring up validity, then feel free to.

Additional nuance that shouldn't affect validity but is worth mentioning

One can't really expect a new television series to introduce all of its recurring segments in the first episode, so in the second episode (which, I may remind you, is the Doctor Who crossover), several concepts were introduced that went on to appear several times in the series. And this means that the majority of RR:tS actually passes T:VS. (The concepts introduced, as far as I can make out, for those interested, are Iris and Freddy Rat and RatEnders, although there may be some that I've missed.) On the one hand, this shouldn't make anything invalid. On the other, it makes rather a lot of things valid. The following table is of the episodes that would be validated, although only going over the first series and Christmas special, as I haven't been able to get hold of the second.

Episode number	DWU concept	DWU concept debut
2	Sixth Doctor	The Caves of Androzani
3	Iris Rat, Freddy Rat	Episode 2
4	Cooking With a Moron, D'Arcy De Farcy's Secrets of the World's Greatest Chefs, Iris Rat, Freddy Rat
5
6	Iris Rat, Freddy Rat
	Fictionalised version of Margaret Thatcher	Episode 3
7	Iris Rat, Freddy Rat	Episode 2
10
11
12
13
Christmas special	RatEnders

Conclusion

So, that's about it. What do people think? Aquanafrahudy 📢 18:41, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

As fun as it might be, covering basically all of Roland Rat: The Series might be a bit much; this feels somewhat similar to Lady Penelope being introduced in Mr. Steelman, where a character obviously not meant to be seen as "DWU" first appears in a crossover. It's complicated, but I think just covering (the full!) second episode is fine. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 10:50, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

But if you were to look at individual episodes as opposed to the series overall, then each of the episodes featuring DWU elements would be a Doctor Who spin off. We could theoretically do it, but it'd be dangerous precedent to set imo, and much to similar to the old threads that ruled this or that spin off uncovered due to lack of evidence that they were intended to be set in the DWU (see Sleeze Brothers). Also, I'm no expert here, not having watched it, but didn't Lady Penelope originate in the Thunderbirds TV series? Asking purely out of interest, as it doesn't really have an awful lot to do with the thread. Aquanafrahudy 📢 12:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

If you look at release dates, Mr. Steelman beats Trapped in the Sky by several months. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 12:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Oh, that's interesting! So Lady Penelope is a DWU concept like Unity City! Aquanafrahudy 📢 12:51, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

More like Big Finish's Dorian Gray if anything. You could try starting an inclusion debate for all of Thunderbirds, but I don't think it would go very well. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 13:10, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I may very well do, once I've watched it, but it isn't terribly high on my list of things to watch, so that may not be for a while. Aquanafrahudy 📢 13:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thunderbirds is actually available for free on Shout! TV. Cgl1999 ☎ 18:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I meant that there were other things that I meant to watch first, but never mind. Aquanafrahudy 📢 18:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I am all for this I believe that the validation of these Stories could lead to beneficial debates on this wiki. These to me seem to fulfil a solid function as I do not believe this show currently has significant documentation elsewhere. And whilst the first episode would not be validated, which is a shame but fair, I think the rest should either be validated or at the least have increased coverage, it goes without saying the 2nd episode should absolutely be valid. Anastasia Cousins ☎ 18:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)