Forum:New Torchwood Team

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Why is it that Esther, Rex, and Vera are in the category "Associates of Torchwood Three", but not "Torchwood Three Personnel"? Rex and Esther at least have both been referred to as being in Torchwood on many occassions, and they have been acting as the Torchwood team throughout this season.Icecreamdif 06:21, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I would say that they were put in that category based on the early eps of the series, where they still were officially CIA. They've probably not been changed because there's a huge question of whether they are Tochwood Three at this point, or just simply Torchwood personnel. I mean, the Three bit seems awfully pretentious at this point. As has been made clear throughout the series, Jack and Gwen are it as far as Torchwood is concerned.

I think we've just been struggling to come up with a name for this group, as evidenced by Forum:What do we call the post-Miracle Day Torchwood?, and I don't think we'll truly have an answer for that until the final scene of episode 10.

I'd say the wisest course of action — that is, the one involving the least amount of work for us — is to revisit this whole issue in late September.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">02:58:02 Tue 23 Aug 2011 

If its because we haven't decided whether or not to call them Torchwood 3 yet, then shouldn't we stop using the categories for allies and enemies of Torchwood 3? It just seems weird to me to say that Rex and Esther are allies of Torchwood 3, but not to say that they are members of Torchwood at all.Icecreamdif 23:38, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Transitions are always displeasing. Those who were happy see things changed and are miserable. Those who want change never get exactly the change they want. Calm and good will will carry us through. Boblipton 00:29, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

I actually recall in multiple episodes, Gwen refering to the new team as "Team Torchwood" and "New Torchwood Team". It does seem as though they are only called Torchwood, and that Torchwood Three was destroyed in Children of Earth. I think we should wait two weeks until the final episode to make the change. Rassilon of Old ^{(Talk - Contribs)} 09:15, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, given that the series will probably be over before any consensus can be reached, there's really no good reason not to just wait. --173.228.85.35 17:53, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, The Blood Line is out now, and I'm not really sure if their's anything in the episode that helps with this problem. It is left ambiguous as to whether or not Jack and Gwen would reform Torchwood. Rex didn't seem to be planning to stay with Torchwood, but his newfound immortality might change things. Esther's dead so she obviously won't be a more permanent member of Torchwood. So, should we say that the version of Torchwood that appeared throughout Miracle Day was Torchwood Three, or just Torchwood, or come up with some new name for it. If they aren't Torchwood Three then a lot of the nav boxes and categories need to be changed.Icecreamdif 05:49, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

I always interpreted "Torchwood Three" as meaning the group which was based in the Hub in Cardiff. Even in Children of Earth they were still the Torchwood Three team because although the Hub had been destroyed, the same team was still working as a team. After Jack left and Gwen went domestic, Torchwood Three was no more.

After Gwen and Jack met back up they were once again being referred to as "Torchwood" by others and themselves, but this wasn't a reformation of Torchwood Three specifically; the Hub (which was only called Torchwood Three to differentiate it from the other branches) was long gone, as was anything else calling itself Torchwood. Thus the Jack & Gwen team, later the Jack/Gwen/Rex/Esther/Vera team, were simply "Torchwood."

I don't think "Torchwood Three" as an organisation has any place in narrative post-Children of Earth; the "Three" had been a holdover from when there was something to be division three from after Jack severed all ties, and the reformed Torchwood in Miracle Day is not known to have used the term at all. On this wiki, as in the narrative, I think they should just be referred to as "Torchwood," though we might like to disambiguate it to "Torchwood (Miracle Day)" or similar to distinguish it from the original organisation. Rob T Firefly 22:24, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

I agree. From the end of the series, it seems like if there is a continuing Torchwood, it won't be the same Crown-sponsored organization with government ties that Torchwood Three was a part of, it'll be Jack and Gwen working with whoever they choose to gather together, to whatever ends they choose. They don't seem inclined to call it "Torchwood Three" (since they never said it once during the series), and nobody has more say than them. Off-camera, I don't remember seeing "Torchwood Three" anywhere on the BBC site, or hearing it in any of RTD's interviews. So, I'm inclined to agree with Rob T Firefly. --173.228.85.35 06:15, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

I'd go as far as saying that the "Torchwood Institute" (the organization working with the British governemnt and sponsored by the Crown) ceased to exist after Children of Earth and what now exists, reformed during the events of Miracle Day is the "Torchwood Team" (this term has been used on screen). "Torchwood Team" or "Torchwood team" is not the ideal name, but I think that considering it a successor, but not a direct continuation of the Torchwood Institute (which everyone in the series itself agrees has ceased to exist) would make sense. The new Torchwood was never and will likely never be referred to as an "institute" again. So I think it would be best to say on the Torchwood Institute page (and Torchwood Three page) that the institute ceased to exist in 2009, but its surviving members continued to operate as the Torchwood Team (or Torchwood team, or Torchwood (team)). Ausir^(talk) <staff/> 13:58, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, don't like it. This is the legitimate successor to the Torchwood Institute, a point made very clear in Miracle Day. "Torchwood (team)" is very ambiguous, as "Torchwood team" could equally apply to any configuration of personnel working for Torchwood. Yvonne Hartman uses the word "team" to apply to T1, right at the beginning of the whole Torchwood narrative, and I'm sure the word "team" has been applied since. This should be all on the Torchwood Institute page. It's still the institute. Nothing has legally invalidated the Torchwood Charter, as far as we know. For that matter, Torchwood Three should be a section on the Torchwood Institute page, with a redirect from Torchwood Three to Torchwood Institute#Torchwood Three.

I think the problem here, really, is that Torchwood, according to our disambig policy should be at Torchwood (TV series), freeing up the article Torchwood Institute to move to Torchwood, which would thereby invalidate the need for this "finding a name" nonsense. I think we can all agree that all iterations of Torchwood are "Torchwood". If the pages had been originally created with the proper name, we wouldn't be in this mess.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">18:35:56 Sun 11 Sep 2011 

Actually, if anything, it is made very clear in Miracle Day that the Torchwood Institute doesn't exist anymore. To quote Rex "It's just a name these days. Just kinda works as a code word to connect us, that's all." Just because it includes two former members of the Torchwood Institute doesn't mean it's a formal continuation of it, just like Ianto having survived the destruction of Torchwood One didn't mean that he was formally the head of T1 now. You mention the Torchwood Charter, but the fact it that the new Torchwood team is no longer financed by the Crown nor "accountable to the Government". It's just a group of individuals that keep using the name, that's all. Ausir^(talk) <staff/> 18:50, September 11, 2011 (UTC)