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There is absolutely no way that The Impossible Planet (or The Satan Pit) and Secrets of the Stars even HINT at this statement, never mind count as a valid source for that assertion. Adding other amendments from exactly what TSP says.
No edit summary Tag: sourceedit |
(There is absolutely no way that The Impossible Planet (or The Satan Pit) and Secrets of the Stars even HINT at this statement, never mind count as a valid source for that assertion. Adding other amendments from exactly what TSP says.) Tag: sourceedit |
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{{cleanup|This page seems to be a bit of a contradictory mess that maybe gives a little too much weight and credence to ''Christmas''{{'}} description being what other stories references of "before the universe" means. The ''Millennial Rites'' and ''Persuasion'' quotes on this page very clearly refers to "another one" and "extinction of their universe", while ''The Satan Pit'' says that the Beast was imprisoned "before time and space and matter... before this universe was created," when, quote, "'''''no life could have existed'''''". Not before the Time Lords or before Rassilon. Not before time was ordered and structured. Just before TIME. Hence the TARDIS being unable to translate the [[Krop Tor script]].}} | {{cleanup|This page seems to be a bit of a contradictory mess that maybe gives a little too much weight and credence to ''Christmas''{{'}} description being what other stories references of "before the universe" means. The ''Millennial Rites'' and ''Persuasion'' quotes on this page very clearly refers to "another one" and "extinction of their universe", while ''The Satan Pit'' says that the Beast was imprisoned "before time and light and space and matter... before this universe was created," when, quote, "'''''no life could have existed'''''". Not before the Time Lords or before Rassilon. Not before time was ordered and structured. Just before TIME. Hence the TARDIS being unable to translate the [[Krop Tor script]]. What exactly does ''Christmas on a Rational Planet'' say about the Big Bang, or as ''The Satan Pit'' puts it, "the cataclysm"?}} | ||
Before [[Rassilon]] created the [[Web of Time]] the universe was not dictated by logic. This '''pre-universe''', before the [[Time Lord]]s, was ruled by [[magic]] and chaos. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'') | Before [[Rassilon]] created the [[Web of Time]] the universe was not dictated by logic. This '''pre-universe''', before the [[Time Lord]]s, was ruled by [[magic]] and chaos. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'') | ||
By [[the Doctor]]'s time, those who knew about the universe before it was made logically assumed that it was the universe that came before [[N-Space]]; | By [[the Doctor]]'s time, those who knew about the universe before it was made logically assumed that it was the universe that came before [[N-Space]]; according to some accounts, it was actually N-Space before history was created. When the universe was rationalised, many powerful species fled into other realities, many found their way back into [[N-Space]] and some (such as the [[Great Old One]]s) still followed the rules of the pre-Time Lord universe, giving them [[god]]-like powers. Thus, some of the most powerful beings in existence came from before [[Rassilon]] created a structure for time, making them older even than time itself. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'', ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'') | ||
Another account contradicted this. [[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|the Beast]], who purportedly came from this time, stated his origins were from the time before N-Space "came into existence" and before "the cataclysm". The Tenth Doctor disbelieved this, saying, "No life could have existed back then." ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit (TV story)|The Satan Pit]]'') | |||
[[River Song]] noted a theory for the [[SporeShip]]s' origin, that they were leftover weapons from the war that wiped out the previous universe. ([[AUDIO]]: ''[[Signs (audio story)|Signs]]'') | [[River Song]] noted a theory for the [[SporeShip]]s' origin, that they were leftover weapons from the war that wiped out the previous universe. ([[AUDIO]]: ''[[Signs (audio story)|Signs]]'') | ||
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Amongst the races that claimed to be older than the universe itself were the [[Great Old One]]s such as [[Azathoth]], [[Yog-Sothoth]] and [[Shub-Niggurath]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'') On many planets, these beings became part of the legends and religions. The Great Old Ones were worshipped by the first intelligent species to evolve on Earth - the [[Silurian]]s. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'') It is unclear whether the Great Old Ones were a single species, or merely a term to describe any unimaginably powerful being that had escaped the pre-universe into ours. | Amongst the races that claimed to be older than the universe itself were the [[Great Old One]]s such as [[Azathoth]], [[Yog-Sothoth]] and [[Shub-Niggurath]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'') On many planets, these beings became part of the legends and religions. The Great Old Ones were worshipped by the first intelligent species to evolve on Earth - the [[Silurian]]s. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'') It is unclear whether the Great Old Ones were a single species, or merely a term to describe any unimaginably powerful being that had escaped the pre-universe into ours. | ||
[[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|The Beast]] claimed to have originated before the universe | [[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|The Beast]] claimed to have originated before the universe. He said was imprisoned by the [[Disciples of the Light]] deep beneath [[Krop Tor]] "before time... before time and light and space and matter, before the cataclysm, before this universe came into existence", likely placing both in that time. The Tenth Doctor believed that "no life could have existed back then." The Doctor wondered if the idea for all [[Satan]]-like figures in the mythology of "a million worlds", including that of [[Earth]], [[Draconia]], [[Vel Consadine]], [[Dæmos]], and the [[Kaled]]s' God of War, had maybe bled through as a thought in the back of "every sentient mind". The Beast himself claimed to be the Devil of "all" religions, which included the [[Arkiphets]], [[Quoldonity]], [[Christianity]], [[Pash Pash]], [[New Judaism]], [[San Klah]] and the [[Church of the Tin Vagabond]]. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit]]'') | ||
The [[Ancient Lights]] were speculated by [[Luke Smith]] to have come from the pre-universe. ([[TV]]: ''[[Secrets of the Stars]]'') | The [[Ancient Lights]] were speculated by [[Luke Smith]] to have come from the pre-universe. ([[TV]]: ''[[Secrets of the Stars]]'') | ||