Pre-universe: Difference between revisions

Pre-universe (edit)

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-{{Inuse}}
+Before the [[Event One|Big Bang]], there existed the '''pre-universe'''. Accounts differ as to what it actually was.
-{{cleanup|This page seems to be a bit of a contradictory mess that maybe gives a little too much weight and credence to ''Christmas''{{'}} description being what other stories references of "before the universe" means. The ''Millennial Rites'' and ''Persuasion'' quotes on this page very clearly refers to "another one" and "extinction of their universe", while ''The Satan Pit'' says that the Beast was imprisoned "before time and light and space and matter... before this universe was created," when, quote, "'''''no life could have existed'''''". Not before the Time Lords or before Rassilon. Not before time was ordered and structured. Just before TIME. Hence the TARDIS being unable to translate the [[Krop Tor script]]. What exactly does ''Christmas on a Rational Planet'' say about the Big Bang, or as ''The Satan Pit'' puts it, "the cataclysm"?}}
-Before [[Rassilon]] created the [[Web of Time]] the universe was not dictated by logic. This '''pre-universe''', before the [[Time Lord]]s, was ruled by [[magic]] and chaos. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
-By [[the Doctor]]'s time, those who knew about the universe before it was made logically assumed that it was the universe that came before [[N-Space]]; according to some accounts, it was actually N-Space before history was created. When the universe was rationalised, many powerful species fled into other realities, many found their way back into [[N-Space]] and some (such as the [[Great Old One]]s) still followed the rules of the pre-Time Lord universe, giving them [[god]]-like powers. Thus, some of the most powerful beings in existence came from before [[Rassilon]] created a structure for time, making them older even than time itself. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'', ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
+According to most accounts, there was another [[universe]] before the Big Bang which operated on different laws of physics. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit (TV story)|The Satan Pit]]'', [[AUDIO]]: ''[[Persuasion (audio story)|Persuasion]]'', [[PROSE]]: ''[[Millennial Rites (novel)|Millenial Rites]]'') However, the [[Carnival Queen]] indicated that this was not a separate universe, but the state of reality before the [[Time Lord]]s created the [[Web of Time]] and, by [[the Doctor]]'s time, those who knew about the pre-universe logically assumed that it was the previous universe. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
-Another account contradicted this. [[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|The Beast]], who purportedly came from this time, stated his origins were from the time before N-Space "came into existence" and before "the cataclysm". The Tenth Doctor disbelieved this, saying, "No life could have existed back then." ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit (TV story)|The Satan Pit]]'')
+Another source indicated that the only thing that existed before the Big Bang was a particle of [[space]] and [[time]] smaller than an [[atom]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Nothing O'Clock (short story)|Nothing O'Clock]]'')
+[[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|The Beast]], who purportedly came from this time, stated his origins were from the time before N-Space "came into existence" and before "the cataclysm". The Tenth Doctor disbelieved this, saying, "No life could have existed back then." ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit (TV story)|The Satan Pit]]'')
+When [[N-Space]] was created, many powerful species fled into other realities and over time many found their way back into [[N-Space]]. Some (such as the [[Great Old One]]s) still followed the rules of the pre-universe, giving them [[god]]-like powers. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'', ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
 [[River Song]] noted a theory for the [[SporeShip]]s' origin, that they were leftover weapons from the war that wiped out the previous universe. ([[AUDIO]]: ''[[Signs (audio story)|Signs]]'')
 == Characteristics ==
-The physics of this pre-Rassilon universe were different from the post-Rassilon universe. [[Magic]] was a powerful force here, and science did not exist. Before the Web of Time the universe was never rationalised, and thus, science never worked, and magic always did. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
+The physics of the pre-universe were different from the physics of [[N-Space]]. [[Magic]] was a powerful force here, and science did not exist. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
 The Doctor described the pre-universe to [[Anne Travers]].
-{{quote|Before this universe was created, there was another one. A totally different universe, with alien physical laws. The heavens were green, and the stars looked like... giant doughnuts, to be brutally frank. Very, very different. And, as in this universe, there were people who discovered the deeper mysteries of time and space.|Sixth Doctor|Millennial Rites}}
+{{quote|Before this universe was created, there was another one. A totally different universe, with alien physical laws. The heavens were green, and the stars looked like... giant doughnuts, to be brutally frank. Very, very different. And, as in this universe, there were people who discovered the deeper mysteries of time and space.|Sixth Doctor|Millennial Rites (novel)}}
 Because of new laws like the [[speed of light]] or the charge of the [[electron]], the Great Old Ones found they had great power and became terrible gods. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'') The [[Shepherd and Shepherdess]] escaped the "extinction of their universe" and arrived in N-space where their appearance became transparent. They moved without touching the ground and their hair and nails grew longer because they were dying in the new reality. ([[AUDIO]]: ''[[Persuasion (audio story)|Persuasion]]'')
 == Natives ==
-Amongst the races that claimed to be older than the universe itself were the [[Great Old One]]s such as [[Azathoth]], [[Yog-Sothoth]] and [[Shub-Niggurath]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'') On many planets, these beings became part of the legends and religions. The Great Old Ones were worshipped by the first intelligent species to evolve on Earth - the [[Silurian]]s. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'') It is unclear whether the Great Old Ones were a single species, or merely a term to describe any unimaginably powerful being that had escaped the pre-universe into ours.
+Amongst the races that claimed to be older than the universe itself were the [[Great Old One]]s such as [[Azathoth]], [[Yog-Sothoth]] and [[Shub-Niggurath]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'', ''[[Millennial Rites]]'') On many planets, these beings became part of the legends and religions. The Great Old Ones were worshipped by the first intelligent species to evolve on Earth - the [[Silurian]]s. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[All-Consuming Fire (novel)|All-Consuming Fire]]'')
 [[The Beast (The Impossible Planet)|The Beast]] claimed to have originated before the universe. He said was imprisoned by the [[Disciples of the Light]] deep beneath [[Krop Tor]] "before time... before time and light and space and matter, before the cataclysm, before this universe came into existence", likely placing both in that time. The Tenth Doctor believed that "no life could have existed back then." The Doctor wondered if the idea for all [[Satan]]-like figures in the mythology of "a million worlds", including that of [[Earth]], [[Draconia]], [[Vel Consadine]], [[Dæmos]], and the [[Kaled]]s' God of War, had maybe bled through as a thought in the back of "every sentient mind". The Beast himself claimed to be the Devil of "all" religions, which included the [[Arkiphets]], [[Quoldonity]], [[Christianity]], [[Pash Pash]], [[New Judaism]], [[San Klah]] and the [[Church of the Tin Vagabond]]. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Satan Pit]]'')
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 == Knowledge ==
-Knowledge of this universe was a closely guarded secret.{{fact}} The [[Sixth Doctor]] only knew about it as a result of his connection to [[the Matrix]] during his time as [[Lord President]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Millennial Rites]]'', [[TV]]: ''[[The Invasion of Time]]'') During an encounter with the [[Carnival Queen]] the [[Seventh Doctor]] learned that the Time Lords had misinterpreted their knowledge of the pre-universe. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
+Knowledge of the pre-universe was a closely guarded secret. The [[Sixth Doctor]] only knew about it as a result of his connection to [[the Matrix]] during his time as [[Lord President]]. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Millennial Rites (novel)|Millennial Rites]]'', [[TV]]: ''[[The Invasion of Time (TV story)|The Invasion of Time]]'') During his encounter with the [[Carnival Queen]], the [[Seventh Doctor]] learned that the Time Lords had misinterpreted their knowledge of the pre-universe. ([[PROSE]]: ''[[Christmas on a Rational Planet (novel)|Christmas on a Rational Planet]]'')
 [[Category:Universes and dimensions]]
 [[Category:History]]
 [[Category:Universe]]